Why HiFi Gear Measurements Are Misleading (yes ASR talking to you…)
About 25 years ago I was inside a large room with an A-frame ceiling and large skylights, during the Perseid Meteor Shower that happens every August. This one time was like no other, for two reasons: 1) There were large, red, fragmenting streaks multiple times a minute with illuminated smoke trails, and 2) I could hear them.
Yes, each meteor produced a sizzling sound, like the sound of a frying pan.
Amazed, I Googled this phenomena and found that many people reported hearing this same sizzling sound associated with meteors streaking across the sky. In response, scientists and astrophysicists said it was all in our heads. That, it was totally impossible. Why? Because of the distance between the meteor and the observer. Physics does not allow sound to travel fast enough to hear the sound at the same time that the meteor streaks across the sky. Case closed.
ASR would have agreed with this sound reasoning based in elementary science.
Fast forward a few decades. The scientists were wrong. Turns out, the sound was caused by radiation emitted by the meteors, traveling at the speed of light, and interacting with metallic objects near the observer, even if the observer is indoors. Producing a sizzling sound. This was actually recorded audibly by researchers along with the recording of the radiation. You can look this up easily and listen to the recordings.
Takeaway - trust your senses! Science doesn’t always measure the right things, in the right ways, to fully explain what we are sensing. Therefore your sensory input comes first. You can try to figure out the science later.
I’m not trying to start an argument or make people upset. Just sharing an experience that reinforces my personal way of thinking. Others of course are free to trust the science over their senses. I know this bothers some but I really couldn’t be bothered by that. The folks at ASR are smart people too.
@prof : so, you mean you own the Devore speakers? And I am very curious: why do you pretend to be something / someone you are not? Everyone knows where you belong in the Great Debate. Do you have the testicular fortitude to say it? there is no shame. Let’s say it together: Amir. is. my. master.God.Holiness |
Huh? No I ended up choosing Joseph Audio Perspective speakers. Still love the heck out of the Devore sound, but wasn't ultimately a good fit for my room. What possible point do you think your question makes?
What in the world are you on about? You just asked for an example of a subjective oriented thread in which I participate...I give you a WHOPPER of just such a thread, and now you are dancing around to some weird conspiracy theory or something? What...I've spent the last 5 years on that thread exchanging only subjective impressions of gear...but it was all in the service of a cover for my Secret Identity in which I don't REALLY care about the subjective impressions that fill that thread? You are clearly not here for a meaningful or serious exchange. So long...
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@prof : don’t be shocked. We both know what I mean. Are you still in good terms with master? All the good work you are doing here must pay dividends and must not go unnoticed by master 😉 ‘Oh:
please describe your test protocols you conducted in choosing your current speakers vs. the Devore speakers you must surely conducted when choosing your current speakers
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Consider it? That is like asking a Chinese person if he would consider eating rice! My measurements get verified by manufacturers every day of the week and twice on Sunday. You think these companies just lay low and ignore what I am producing? Countless companies have asked for my Audio Precision project files and I happily provide it to them so that they can make the same measurements. To the extent I have a relationship with a company, I even offer the measurements for them to verify prior to publication. Here are some quick examples staring with a German company you should know: Neumann: "EDIT: received an overlay of Neumman measurements and mine: Here is Denon:
"I grabbed a preliminary set of measurements from the DAC section of the 3800H and ran it by the company. Within typical margin of error, the measurements were the same as company's own." Here is American company RSL:
"I was contacting the company regarding another product so while I was at it, I asked them to review the frequency response measurements. They are generally in agreement with the results you are about to see." We also have heavyweight reviewers and engineers with their own measurement gear verifying my work. Here is Seymore who writes for AudioExpress: "If there’s anything in his data that you think he’s hiding, then request the AP project files. When I have, Amir has cheerfully provided them." Seymore has also tested some of the same units I have with same results. In this case the designer of a phono stage claimed my measurements were wrong so with permission of the owner, I sent the unit to SIY (Seymore): "As you can see by comparison, our measurements correlate quite closely (though we use opposite numbering for our channels, which I'll blame on my Hebrew education, learning to write from right to left). So I can proceed without worrying about major inconsistencies." It is also not hard to replicate my measurements after seeing them. Such is the case with Professor "Wolf/L7" in China where he tests domestic products that I also happen to test. Results are almost always in agreement. I also helped another reviewer (Erin) who had gotten a Klippel NFS measurement system to get up to speed by sending him the very sample I had tested (JBL monitor). Really, there is nothing to hide here. I put out these measurements with full expectation that they will be scrutinized both on ASR and by manufacturers and other testers. If you have a third-party in mind to verify my results, I am happy to send them one of my tested samples for them to re-test. You pick the place, make it worth their while to do the testing and I will do the rest. I suggest reading ASR for a while and to better understand what we do as to not ask questions for which there are trivial answers. |
Take this from a different standpoint. If speakers and headphones are so lacking in transparency, how could you ever differentiate two amplifiers that are much more transparent than what they are connected to. Looking at it another way, two amplifiers must be significantly different such that they can be differentiated when connected to a typical loudspeaker.
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