Tonearms without anti-skate, damage to records?

@elliottbnewcombjr +1 so correct AS is very important. Just was at Axpona and went to a lecture by JR of Wallytools who showed videos of the cantilever movement with and without AS applied. Unbelievable how the cantilever vibrated back and forth with incorrect AS but once AS was set no back and forth movement of the cantilever assembly

Unbelievable how the cantilever vibrated back and forth with incorrect AS but once AS was set no back and forth movement of the cantilever assembly. 

For how long? For the length of the side? I doubt it very much. Mr. Boisclair may have demonstrated a short segment where AS was optimized but barring one of the tonearm designs referenced above or the like, optimum AS does not exist for very long. The concept is similar to null points and alignment. And for good reason. 

And guess what? Cantilevers are designed to vibrate. Suspensions and motor assemblies are designed around real world conditions. Compared to surface contaminants, imperfect pressings, EMI/RFI, alignment compromises, limited stereo separation, signal to noise ratio limitations, wow, rumble, flutter, speed and so much more, you're at some point losing the forest for the trees. 

So as I said, AS is important but so are many other aspects of cartridge set-up. And as I said, more damage can be done by employing too much AS than by using none. This is similar to the concept that more damage can be done by setting VTF too low than too high, assuming you are still within a reasonable range of optimum.

Eventually every stylus tip is going to need replacement. And, where is the scientific data as to the extent of right channel premature wear when not using AS?

Forgive me for straying towards the pragmatic. The real world. How many times have you picked up a used record and been amazed that it sounds better than many/most of your new pressings? Do you really think that the previous owner(s) had their AS dialed in? 

Hasn’t Peter Ledermann testified to the uneven wear on styli he has inspected personally, due to radically incorrect AS? So there’s your evidence, presented by an expert witness. (I agree with you that there’s no such thing as a perfect amount of AS, but you’d like to be in the ballpark.)

Lewm, are you responding to me? If so, I mentioned "scientific data" meaning something quantitative with a verifiable, repeatable explanation as to the methodology used. Peter Ledermann's observations and descriptions are useful but do not qualify as scientific data. "Testified"? "Evidence"? "Expert witness"? This is not a civil or criminal lawsuit or legal matter. I sure hope not. 

I don't mind saying that I have grown a bit jaded about the pursuit of "the best" when it comes to vinyl. I chased that rainbow. It is a good microcosm of pursuing the best in general home audio reproduction. No matter how much money you throw at uber-expensive cartridges and all associated gear, no matter how much you pursue every last detail of set-up, no matter your record cleaning regimen and devices, you are still facing substantially more significant compromises that can not be overcome. Everything needs be looked upon in perspective. I am not making any judgments here-and am instead only voicing my own perspective based upon my own experience. I am very happy with the sound I get from my present vinyl set-ups. I am not sure I would do anything differently. I simply have my own ideas as to where diminishing returns begin to make a sharp downward curve. Obsessing over optimum AS is one of them. 

On a related note, of all the things the very finest tonearms have in the way of refined, intelligently engineered adjustment features, look how crude the AS mechanism inevitably is-either magnetic or a piece of monofilament with a weight and lever with detents. It doesn't matter if the tonearm is the Project Perspective Carbon mentioned above (not to demean it, it is very nice) or a $28,000 SAT, AS is accomplished using  crude string and weight method is utilized. Mr. Gomez conceals his with internal pulleys but is still based upon a weight and a string. It is part and parcel of the fact that setting AS is a compromise that the solutions come up by mankind so far to combat AS remains relatively crude. 

Like the Project Carbon owner above, I can not stomach the sight of a wobbly weight at the end of a string hung over a glorified paper clip and attached at the other end to a lever. I prefer the clean look and fine adjustment offered by the magnets on my two Reed 3P's. But that is purely aesthetic. I don't claim the methodology to be any more sophisticated. 

fsonic, Ordinarily, I would totally agree with you. You are very correct to ask for scientific evidence to support any of the claims made regarding audio as a hobby, especially vinyl. There are so many erroneous but commonly held beliefs that persist just because of hearsay. BUT in this case, the weight of the circumstantial evidence in favor of using at least some anti-skate with a pivoted tonearm is SO overwhelming as to be convincing, at least good enough for me. Yes, the magnitude of AS required to fully compensate for the skating force at any moment in time on one LP vs another is not close to being a constant. That does not mean there is no benefit. Likewise, there probably is a negative consequence of using too much AS. Such is life.

But are you also protesting the crude nature of most AS devices on most tonearms? You ought to see the AS device on my Kenwood L07J tonearm, the arm that is an integral part of the Kenwood L07D TT, wouldn’t work on any other turntable but was given its own model name by Kenwood. It uses a nylon monofilament, but there is no dangling weight. The force is applied from the left side of the arm pillar (between pivot and spindle) but wraps around to the rear of the bearing pillar so as to pull the bearing housing forward (toward the front of the TT), therefore applying a force that rotates the pivot counter-clockwise, so the arm is pulled away from the spindle. The AS force is supplied by a weight that rides on a strut; the monofilament wraps around the bottom of the strut, riding on pulleys. The magnitude of the AS is adjusted by moving the weight with respect to the pivot point of the strut on which it rides. Thus no dangling weight.