Tonearms without anti-skate, damage to records?

@dover   Please explain why you think the skating force does not change linearly as the record is played.  Surely it is just a question of geometry?

I never said that.   Apologies @dover you didn't

@lewm    "the skating force is not linear in the way its magnitude varies."

Over to you.....

Dear @noromance : " No one appears to have mentioned the sound quality with regards to AS. I find that the music sounds less restrained with no AS applied .."

I’m in agreement with your statement by first hand experiences with different cartridges/tonearms  and how its quality level performance really improves and this at the end is what it counts.

I think that almost all audiophiles as us several years ago were educated to use the AS in our pivoted tonearms. Even in those old days the advise was " to ste up the AS tonearm at the same value of VTF " and in those old times the cartridge/tonearm manufacturers was ok with.

I remember my AT 1100/1010 ( both very good tonearms ) where the AS was handled by string/weigth and its AS mechanism you need to choose 3 AS positions according the stylus tip: conical, ellipthical and LC and was AT who years latter told me that the AS must be no higher than the 50% of VTF but almost no one but VPI manufacturer just disappeared the AS and several of us were and even today are against the VPI design,

Now, which is the specific role of any cartridge/tonearm during LP play?, I think is to pick-up all the grooves information it can and everything the same what could and can make a differences for the better in the cartridge and in the tonearm? :

cartridge tracking abilites and very low friction in the tonearm bearing, that’s that the stylus/cantilever movements following the grooves been free of additional natural forces developed down there and the AS tonearms mechanisms are not a " natural force " and this AS impedes that natural cartridge/cantilever movements.

What almost all the technical oriented gentlemans posted before have some sense but the reality is that with or with out AS the today very good polished different shapes stylus tip gone play by play suffering a natural wear and we start to listen that stylus tip wear after/around the first 800 hours of playing and today almost all audiophiles own over 2-3+ cartridges. So before that playing figure we just do not " noted " the stylus tip wear and that’s just worn and maybe ready to re-tip.

"" The sound of alleviating this force is unmistakable: more relaxed sound, larger soundstage, more overall coherency and intelligibility. ""

No doubt about. Nothing is perfect in audio and on the AS issue it’s better don’t use it there are other issues that in reality benefit the listening sound but not the AS. Just try it and you can be sure that if you listen distortions as lewm then something is wrong down there cartridge/tonearm.

Yes I was surprised the very first time I did not use the AS and till today there is no way to come back t AS.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,

R.

Raul, I am very surprised by your opinion. I am also surprised that you have the hubris to suggest that my hearing R channel distortion in the absence of AS in my system is evidence that something is wrong with my ears or my system. Whereas theory predicts one WOULD hear R channel distortion in the absence of AS. You can’t have it both ways; either you’re a purist who advocates that tubes and conical styli and anything else that either limits bandwidth or adds a distortion you can mrasure, should go, or you’re a subjectivist who says if it sounds good, it is good. You’ve heaped criticism upon those who take the latter position in the past, very consistently. I have generally found that a very tiny amount of AS, usually much less than textbook, suffices to alleviate the distortion, and that’s where I stop, but not at zero AS.

You might also add with what tonearm and cartridge do you draw your conclusions regarding AS.

Dear @rauliruegas 

If you give me a $100 bill and I were to exclaim I am now $100 richer, that claim might be untrue because I didn’t notice you may had taken $200 from my back pocket while giving me this one hundred dollar bill.

I.E., One may not make any claims about the sonic benefits of anti-skating before first measuring the starting horizontal torque force AND the arm’s static frictional force. Starting horizontal torque forces and stiction can vary wildly by tonearm - even of the same brand and model (to wit: those who were at AXPONA and witnessed the problems Michael Fremer had with the tonearm suppled to him for his setup seminar.) This is why the WallySkater was developed: so we can REMOVE THE VARIABLES  from our assessment and apply the best AVERAGE compensatory torque force to keep the skating force from inhibiting the performance of the cartridge.

additionally, if your tonearm has significant horizontal torque native to it before applying AS, then you can be sure your cantilever alignment will be off as well

 I have generally found that a very tiny amount of AS, usually much less than textbook, suffices to alleviate the distortion, and that’s where I stop, but not at zero AS.

Spot on - from my personal conversations with both Brian & John Garrot ( orig Garrots Bros ) and AJ van den hul most cartridges come in with uneven wear from incorrectly applied antiskate ( or none ). This is from truckloads of cartridges sent for rebuild.

The top van den hul cartridges all now come with recommended antiskate levels specified - individually calibrated for each cartridge.

In the old days (80's onwards) most shops used to recommend anti skate up to 75% of the tracking force - this is too high.

Both Shure and Grado with extensive testing came up with recommended levels between 25-30% - much lower than most shops recommend.

I can easily hear changes to antiskate in my system.