2. amps-preamps
  3. 1404789005

Seeking more 3d imaging, deeper/wider soundstage

I'm considering replacing either my amp or my pre. My system is profiled in my system link. Which do you think would improve soundstage/imaging more:
Replace the P3? I'd consider used McCormack, or a passive line stage, but my amp clips at 5v, which is what my DAC puts out when using the XLR outputs, and I'd like to try those someday...not sure a passive is a good fit for my system? Plus I require a remote. That's a deal breaker.
Replace the Rotel RB-1080? I'd consider parasound (a21 is a bit too pricey for me), used McCormack, odyssey, maybe even older krell or classe. I want XLR inputs tho.
Budget is $900-$1200 for either. Music spans the full gamut, excluding hip hop and country. Room is small, 12x12x8. I'm going to throw up some affordable foam acoustic absorption this summer (foam factory). Thnx in advance.
realremo
atmasphere's avatar
atmasphere
12,120 posts
 
Even a cheap system should image and play depth. More has to do with setup (not just placement of the speakers in the room) than anything else. Many speakers won't play depth right if they are too close to the wall behind them. So you will have to play with them to get depth (if you don't, no amount of equipment swapping will get it for you).

Once you achieve that then you might consider changing components to get more nuance. I am an advocate of tubes (and your speakers are not a difficult load for any tube amp that also has the power to drive them in your room) but despite my preferences you've got some good advice on this thread that will cost you nothing but a little time experimenting.
metman
233 posts
 
All things being equal I still believe that tubes provide a deeper soundstage with greater depth. As always YMM
bo1972's avatar
bo1972
2,789 posts
 
"Even a cheap system should image and play depth. More has to do with setup (not just placement of the speakers in the room) than anything else"

When I read this nonsense you don't understand audio.

I have done thousend of tests in more than 16 years of time I do this work. Differences in depth between speakers, amps, pre amps, sources, cables and even conditioners are huge.

I can create a lot of depth even when speakers are placed near the wall. Stuppid remark again. When you use an amp and speakers which can give a wide and deep stage you also can create a deep stage. Roomcorrection makes the stage also deeper, it gives you more accuracy.

Every single tool I test for what kind of image it gives. These differences in depth are big.

When you use those brands which can create more depth, you make it yourself a lot more easy.

Ofcourse when you put speakers more of the wall you get moe depth. But when an amp is poor in depth, you never get a deep stage.

And yes tubes are a great example which often can create a nice deep sound.

At the end there are different ways to create a deep stage. Don't forget that at most shows many demos are flat and are often 2 dimensional.
paraneer's avatar
paraneer
818 posts
 
I almost spit out my morning coffee when I read Bo's latest above. He obviously has no idea who he is spurting off to. I could never imagine Bo attempting to school this gentleman. But wait a minute...I just did.

Another self dug hole from village's favorite...well you know what.
tubegroover
2,320 posts
 
First off I totally agree with Raymonda, 3d sound must be on the recording to hear it at home on an audio system. I also agree with him, at least concerning most studio rock recordings that there is little 3D effect on these recordings. Live recordings are a different matter, it can readily be heard if the system is properly set-up.

There are many very good points and advice given. First and foremost IME is speaker placement relative to room boundaries. Your room is small so options are limited. Most speakers are designed for placement away from room boundaries but will vary depending on design. In any case I would focus first on all matter of placement before changing out components. There is no easy solution that can necessarily resolve your particular issue if the problem persists beyond speaker placement. But I would consider source component and amplifier choice next in line to consider.

Bo one thing you said above which I totally agree with is the often overlooked importance of "speed" in an amplifier design in revealing spacial and time relationships of instruments and voices on a recording. I think this is VERY important, after placement in realizing a more complete picture of what is on the recording and fully realizing a vital element of the 3-D illusion. What you may not realize is that Atma-sphere makes some of the "fastest" amplifiers that can realize this and has for more than 30 years. I suppose you haven't heard an OTL amplifier or you would probably be familiar at least with his designs?
More to discover