Seeking more 3d imaging, deeper/wider soundstage

First off I totally agree with Raymonda, 3d sound must be on the recording to hear it at home on an audio system. I also agree with him, at least concerning most studio rock recordings that there is little 3D effect on these recordings. Live recordings are a different matter, it can readily be heard if the system is properly set-up.

There are many very good points and advice given. First and foremost IME is speaker placement relative to room boundaries. Your room is small so options are limited. Most speakers are designed for placement away from room boundaries but will vary depending on design. In any case I would focus first on all matter of placement before changing out components. There is no easy solution that can necessarily resolve your particular issue if the problem persists beyond speaker placement. But I would consider source component and amplifier choice next in line to consider.

Bo one thing you said above which I totally agree with is the often overlooked importance of "speed" in an amplifier design in revealing spacial and time relationships of instruments and voices on a recording. I think this is VERY important, after placement in realizing a more complete picture of what is on the recording and fully realizing a vital element of the 3-D illusion. What you may not realize is that Atma-sphere makes some of the "fastest" amplifiers that can realize this and has for more than 30 years. I suppose you haven't heard an OTL amplifier or you would probably be familiar at least with his designs?

I am familiar with OTL. I owned tube amps as well. I sold a lot tube amps as well.

I am always for the best option possible. I love the sound of tube. But I do not want limitations.

That is why I love the sound of Pass Labs. The new .8 series even come closer to tube sound. But the speed and drive are better.

I am always focussed on a sound what is complete as possible. I love classical music. I want all the timbre to be heard of a violin of Cello.

I love the class A sound of Pass Labs. They also can give a wide and deep stage. This space give me the freedom to create the intimate stage within the wide and deep stage. They also are stunning in speed and drive. This is what it makes it more complete. This gives me more quality what I want and need in my sound.

Because a deep and wide stage without an intimate stage is useless.

So what is a 3D sound?

In the past shows with a wide and deep stage often did not convince me. Because I did not get inside the music. Because when instruments and voices are played too big in proportion it is gone.

Even when you have a wide and deep stage with instruments and voices played in realistic proportion you are still not there.

Instruments and voices need to be what I call 'round' This is the air around instruments and voices what make them become round.

The difference is black is huge when you compare old highend cables from the past with the best new ones.

For those who are not familiar with blacks. Blacks is the space between voices and instruments on a recording. It makes instruments and voices more physical apparent.

At this moment I play with 2 pair of Audioquest Wel Signatures. One still needs to be burned in. 500 hours for each cable. I never auditioned a cable which had such big differences in sound and image during the burning in period.

It sets 3D sound to a higher and new level what is even new for me. I will write a review when the 2nd one is burned in. Differences in heights and place where an instruments or voice is standing on the recording give a different harmonic sound/timbre. Listening with these cables influence the emotion a lot. It is a higher level in 3D sound.

A the end there are many parts to create a better 3D sound. One thing I know for sure is that people prefer 3d sound far over 2d sound.

Dear Bo,

Your tone of voice in your posts and your positioning of yourself as an expert of monumental proportions just suffered a severe blow. The way you rudely and summarily dismissed Atmasphere's comment is at once shocking and yet very telling.

While I have never owned any Atmasphere amplifier nor do I know Ralph beyond his input on these forums, I, like many here, have learned a great deal from his sincere and thoughtful input on a wide variety of subjects. He builds world class products and knows what he is talking about and your cavalier dismissal of his post and additionally, the complete and utter arrogance you demostrated while doing so is simply mind boggling!

At least for my 2 cent interpretation of your actions, I will chalk it up to the observation that English is likely your 3rd or 4th language and that audio is the only hobby that is conducive with living in your parent's basement. Any other explanation from you should probably come with a mea culpa for your comments toward Ralph and the hyperbole you incorrectly asserted toward his very accurate input is at least worthy of an apology. Peace.

Thanks for all the comments. My speakers are multiple feet
away from both the back and side walls. I have also toed
them in toward my seating position. Have also tried crossing
them in front of seating position, I don't like that as
much.
I have acoustical foam on order, simple wall coverings from
the foam factory. They are not up yet, but I have
experimented for months with speaker placement. I have the
system sounding as good as it can in the room, IMHO. Now I
want to get to the next level, which means ... *updating
components* ... I should have an opportunity to make a
purchase in a couple of months.
I have read the recommendations for tube amps, VTL and Rogue
are the only brands I have seen mentioned. I suggested Prima
Luna, but no response to this, is Prima Luna not a good
brand? I can get these amps serviced locally. and what about
"tube biasing?" what is that and how often must I
do it, and how much does it cost? Tube amps sound like they
need maintenance, one reason why I have not gotten into
them. Plus tubes wear out...
Can we shift the discussion to the following:
tube amps vs full class A solid state like older Classe or
older Krell?
anyone who has my speakers and is getting fantastic 3D
imaging, what gear do you use?
OR...***possible speaker upgrade***...?!? (if my Rotel is
sufficient...) I might audition the new focal Aria line...

It is as it is. Maybe it sounds hard, it is not rude. Words can be read differently.

The older Classe amp ( sold them for a long time) have a musical sound and can give a deep and wide stage. The limitation is that individual focus of instruments and voices is not that sharp.

The problem with Krell is that some amps sound really awesome and others sound harsh and more analytical. You need to know the good and bad ones

Pathos make some amps which are not that expensive on the used market. They also have good drive and speed. And they can give a very good 3D stage.