Your experience of moving to two subs


Hi all, I have a 2.1 system with the sub sounding best in the center between the loudspeakers. My speakers have substantial, deep, and detailed bass for their size and with the SS amp I’ve chosen. Thus, the sub’s optimal crossover setting is only at about 28hz. I have plenty of bass amplitude going on -- don’t need "more" bass.

I’m wondering about soundstage effects of having two subs on the outsides of my speakers, though. Having my sub in the center does result in some apparent compression of the low frequencies towards the low-center area. The L and R channels from my preamp are combined at my sub. I know some people may disagree and think that the source of frequencies below 60hz can’t be located by human hearing, but my experience tells me differently.

Does anyone have an opinion on the benefits of 2 subs vs only 1 when there’s no need for more bass oompf?

128x128gladmo

Gladmo,

you might be hearing a longer group delay that could make it sound “slow” I have not seen the SB2000 group delay but I was a bit surprised at how high the group delay was on the SB 16 Ultra (link below). It was over 20ms.  You could argue at that low a frequency it is less important but still about twice what JL does with their subs. The only way to overcome the delay is using an active system to delay the mains. Receivers can do this and same fancy highnesses as well.  Well a mini DSP does to but the output stage is junk.  anyway just a guess and thinking out loud. 
 

https://www.audioholics.com/subwoofer-reviews/svs-sb16-ultra/measurements

my 2 cents: you need money for 2 subs to try to 2 subs. My problem solved.

(I have one sub, purely because I lucked out, I could afford zero)

Never heard of the term group delay before, but maybe that’s it. The Rythmik sub uses a direct servo motor system to control transient response precision. The SVS in comparison sounds like the cone is slower to change direction. If it’s phase alignment that’s being referred to, I can confidently assert that it’s unrelated to my comments. Both the Rythmik and SVS have manual phase adjustments.

Yes group delay matters a lot with subs. group delay and phase are related. The audioholics information is very good.

Many subs are delayed enough they are a full cycle back. The kicker is it can change at different frequencies so you can’t just adjust it out with a simple phase knob. At the lower frequency the cycles are so long (slow) it is less of an issue but still very relevant. It is one of the down side of having all the high tech processing in subs these days. It all takes time even though it is still pretty fast. I personally will not buy a sub unless see the group delay measurement as I feel it is important. In a system where timing can not be corrected (99.9% of 2ch preamps). Think of it as input lag ratings of computer monitors.

 

@james633 Sounds like why I chose to give up on the parametric EQ section of the amp on my Rythmik sub, soon after buying it. Sounds significantly better and faster to me without applying a specific FR curve.