Koestu original Onyx Sig pre-platinum cart vs. later/current platinum Sig comparisons

Hi@statman71

I certainly hope you received a satisfactory response to a question you posted 5 years ago.  I find this of interest.  I only recently joined this website and peruse the forums.  Even though it has been 5 years may I reinforce the comments of others especially the knowledgeable mulling.

It was some years ago that I purchased two Koetsu Onyx Signature cartridges the same day at the same store.  Serial numbers:  #1167 and #1169.  One was purchased as a present (which never happened) and one I mounted on Oracle turntable fitted with a SME V tonearm.  I still have both cartridges, the #1167 is now mounted on an Oracle Delphi Mark VI with a SME V tonearm, and the #1169 still remains in its box and never used.  I presently have three Oracle turntables (I had others that I sold).  What can I say who buy two Koetsu cartridges at a time, and who has/had a collection of Oracle turntables.  But it makes for great comparisons.  Yes I also owned a Koetsu Onyx Platinum.  Operative word being "owned".  I had it for a relatively brief period.  A semi-friend was primarily interested in purchasing one of my Oracle Mark IV tables.  He also liked the Alphason Xenon tonearm I had but was not pleased with the Benz-Micro MC-3 Gold that was mounted, but wanted a Koetsu.  I was not going to part with the original Onyx Signatures because I considered the non-platinum cartridge very much superior to the Onyx Platinum.  So, I parted with the Onyx Platinum for that reason.

I do not know the reasoning, but the non-platinum, In my opinion, is superior.  Whether it is because it was fabricated by the Master himself, Yoshiaki Sugano, or because of the output voltage of 0.44mV, or because of its weight at 14.95 grams - I have no idea.  I realize that after Sugano San was fading from the operation the idea to incorporate platinum magnets to control the eddy currents was the reason that I found the Onyx Platinum inferior, or, was it that Yoshiaki Sugano was no longer involved personally in the fabrication or finalization.  I do not know.  It was shortly afterwards that the company went almost dormant for 3 to 4 years.  And Platinum was promoted as superior when the manufacturing was resurrected.

Nevertheless,  I had the opportunity to listen to both on identical Tonearm/Turntable and Phono Pre-amp set-ups, and easily be able to switch among speakers.  To me there was no question, tho non-platinum Onyx cartridge is superior.  To this day this one arrangement exists and gives me great pleasure.  The suspension system (surprisingly) is still working well, considering the Keotsu cartridges are not good tracking cartridges.  When new, they both, that is, the Platinum and the Non-Platinum just passed my "Test" record at 70mu.  At times even 65, but they improved a bit over some time.

I realize that this is no more than further verification of what others have stated.  And, as a new member, I just wanted to insert my two cents worth of opinion.  I realize that the word "Platinum" is a great Marketing tool, but, I think the Koetsu Brand could "Actually" (Hard to comprehend) even improve their products if they reverted back to the Samarium-Cobalt or other magnet materials, and, forget the Marketing, because they already HAVE the reputation.  They do not need any gimmick.  But, that is my humble opinion as someone who has a M.B.A. in Marketing as well as a Doctorate in Chemistry.  Sorry - A bit much.  My apologies to Koetsu. 

Hi@statman71

Corrections

I certainly hope you received a satisfactory response to a question you posted 5 years ago.  I find this of interest.  I only recently joined this website and peruse the forums.  Even though it has been 5 years may I reinforce the comments of others especially the knowledgeable mulveling.

It was some years ago that I purchased two Koetsu Onyx Signature cartridges the same day at the same store.  Serial numbers:  #1167 and #1169.  One was purchased as a present (which never happened) and one I mounted on an Oracle turntable fitted with a SME V tonearm.  I still have both cartridges, the #1167 is now mounted on an Oracle Delphi Mark VI with a SME V tonearm, and the #1169 still remains in its box and never used.  I presently have three Oracle turntables (I had others that I sold).  What can I say who buy two Koetsu cartridges at a time, and who has/had a collection of Oracle turntables.  But it makes for great comparisons.  Yes I also owned a Koetsu Onyx Platinum.  Operative word being "owned".  I had it for a relatively brief period.  A semi-friend was primarily interested in purchasing one of my Oracle Mark IV tables.  He also liked the Alphason Xenon tonearm I had but was not pleased with the Benz-Micro MC-3 Gold that was mounted, but wanted a Koetsu.  I was not going to part with the original Onyx Signatures because I considered the non-platinum cartridge very much superior to the Onyx Platinum.  So, I parted with the Onyx Platinum for that reason.

I do not know the reasoning, but the non-platinum, In my opinion, is superior.  Whether it is because it was fabricated by the Master himself, Yoshiaki Sugano, or because of the output voltage of 0.44mV, or because of its weight at 14.95 grams - I have no idea.  I realize that after Sugano San was fading from the operation the idea to incorporate platinum magnets to control the eddy currents was the reason that I found the Onyx Platinum inferior, or, was it that Yoshiaki Sugano was no longer involved personally in the fabrication or finalization.  I do not know.  It was shortly afterwards that the company went almost dormant for 3 to 4 years.  And Platinum was promoted as superior when the manufacturing was resurrected.

Nevertheless,  I had the opportunity to listen to both on identical Tonearm/Turntable and Phono Pre-amp set-ups, and easily be able to switch among speakers.  To me there was no question, tho non-platinum Onyx cartridge is superior.  To this day this one arrangement exists and gives me great pleasure.  The suspension system (surprisingly) is still working well, considering the Keotsu cartridges are not good tracking cartridges.  When new, they both, that is, the Platinum and the Non-Platinum just passed my "Test" record at 70um.  At times even 65um, but they improved a bit over some time.

I realize that this is no more than further verification of what the others have already stated.  And, as a new member, I just wanted to insert my two cents worth of opinion.  I realize that the word "Platinum" is a great Marketing tool, but, I think the Koetsu Brand could "Actually" (Hard to comprehend) even improve their products if they reverted back to the Samarium-Cobalt or other magnet materials, and, forget the Marketing because they already HAVE the reputation.  They do not need any gimmicks.  But, that is my humble opinion as someone who has a M.B.A. in Marketing as well as a Doctorate in Chemistry.  Sorry - A bit much.  My apologies to Koetsu. 

@wizzzard Your report of your experience is valuable, the use of a product and description of how the product is used/has been used, will always be a very good record to put in the place where others will look in on occasions to see if something can be learned.  

This is a case where things have obviously gone downhill. The current Koetsu line can not compare to the earlier cartridges. No Koetsu fan I know of prefers the later cartridges. If you do not have access to an earlier one get a My Sonic Lab Signature Gold. It is a superbly built, very Koetsu sounding like cartridge.  

Wizzzard, I’d recommend a higher effective mass tonearm to get the very best out of your Koetsu, no matter what the magnet is made of. I’ve owned my Urushi for 14 years; it got better and better as I moved it into progressively higher mass tonearms over the years. Started in a Triplanar. Currently in an FR64S with 18g Ortofon LH9000 headshell. (Stylus only was replaced along the way by Expert Stylus Repair in UK.)