Looking for Tonearm Advice/Suggestions


I am looking down the road at potentially upgrading my tonearm and cartridge (tonearm first) and would greatly appreciate any advice and suggestions this board may have.  I have always received great feedback from the Audiogon community and I always learn a lot when asking these questions so thanks in advance for your help.

Here is my current setup:

  • Dr. Feickert Volare turntable
  • Jelco TK-850S tonearm
  • Lyra Delos MC cartridge
  • Manley Chinook phono stage
  • Prima Luna Dialogue HP Premium integrated amp
  • Dynaudio Contour S 3.4LE speakers
  • Twin REL T/9i subs
  • Analysis Plus Oval 9 speaker cables
  • Innuos Zenith music server
  • Lumin T2 streamer
  • Bryston CD player
  • AudioQuest Niagara 1200 Power Conditioner

I listen to variety of music but mainly classic rock, country/folk (not bro-country) and singer/songwriter. I prefer listening to vinyl although I also still play CD’s as well as stream. Overall I have put this system together trying to minimize harshness as I gravitate to a “warmer” sound. In thinking about a tonearm upgrade I am considering the Kuzma Stogi 9 or possibly the Reed 1h 9.5.  Down the road I would love a Hana Unami Red cartridge but not sure I want to pay that price.  The Unami Blue is also a consideration.

I’m not in a hurry but would greatly appreciate your thoughts on these tonearm options as well as cartridges. I know there are many other tonearms out there and countless combinations so feel free to lob in any thoughts you have.  I am all ears and open minded.

Many thanks,

@puppyt 

 

 

 

 

 

Ag insider logo xs@2xpuppyt

@pindac Yes, but the problem is we are all down the rabbit hole. Which cookie did you eat?

I agree with Raul in that you probably ought to have first selected a new cartridge and then a tonearm that best suited your choice of cartridge. However, you have chosen a very fine tonearm that should work well with almost anything, so not much can have been lost in the bargain.  To expand on the definition of a SUT, if you really did not know, a Step Up Transformer as used in conjunction with a low output MC cartridge is for the sole purpose of increasing voltage gain.  Transformers are passive devices; the product of voltage X current at the primary will always (nearly) equal the product of voltage X current on the secondary side of the transformer.  Most commercial SUTs will provide a voltage gain of at least 10X, In other words, the signal voltage on the secondary will be increased by 10 fold over the signal voltage measured at the primary.  So if the LOMC cartridge makes 0.5mV under the standard conditions, 5mV will appear on the secondary of the SUT.  The current seen at the secondary will be reduced by 10 fold, likewise.  But you don’t care about that because you are amplifying voltage.   That said, there is no way you need a SUT in your present system.  SUTs are typically used with phono stages that were designed only for high output MM cartridges.  Such stages typically make about 40db of signal gain between input and output. That amount of gain is inadequate for a typical LOMC cartridge. Your Chanook can amplify the cartridge output by 65db, which is adequate for any LOMC down to about 0.4mV output.  Especially since your linestage adds additional gain to the signal.  The consideration of how much phono gain you need is a bit more complex than I have described but suffice to say you are OK with what you’ve got.  No SUT needed.  As to why your system sounds harsh with the Kuzma tonearm added in is anyone’s guess, but it’s probably not per se the fault of the new tonearm.

@lewm 

Thanks for this explanation. I had never heard the term “SUT” until @pindac mentioned it. I’m glad to learn about it and even more appreciative that you suggest it is not something I need. The good news is I don’t have to keep this tonearm and can return it if needed. I just need to figure out whether or not I can correct the issues I am hearing or whether I need to start over with either the tonearm, the cartridge or both. Your thoughts and those of others are very helpful in this process. 

I do have a general question for you and others. I know speakers and amplifiers have a “sound”. I am very partial to the Dynaudio sound in speakers and I have become a fan of tube amplification. To my ears the combination has provided a warmer, richer sound. I know there is a point at which the pursuit of “warmth” can overwhelm what I would term “clarity” or maybe the term is “accuracy”. I don’t think I have done that so far at least not to my ears. Up to this point every piece I have added has peeled back a layer of the onion without causing fatigue. So my general question is this, do cartridges and tonearms have a signature sound like speakers and amps have or do they simply reveal more as you move up to more expensive and expertly designed models?

 

In my opinion, individual pieces do make a contribution to overall sound quality, but in the end you’re listening to an ensemble of components and unless something is grossly malfunctioning it would be hard for a stranger to pick it apart and tell you exactly what’s what. First of all, we don’t know what you mean by “harsh”. And we don’t know who set up your new tonearm.

@puppyt As we are sharing information based on the impact a New Addition TA has had, when used in conjunction with a Cart' that has a combined purchase cost of approx' $5.5K. I was correctly/incorrectly assuming the Set Up for the Geometry and chosen Tracking Force were already dealt with.

Additionally, It is a concern that after a couple of responses to your Update Post, there is information offered that has contributed to manifestation of a developing idea, that maybe your TA and Cart' choice are not correct, and a change is required. 

Firstly, If you are not absolutely sure you have produced the best Geometry and Tracking Force, this can be done with immediacy and the most cheaply by using the eye to see if anything looks amiss. If absolute accuracy is wanted then the costs can increase to acquire the ancillaries to aid this task. Extreme Cautiousness is required, the fragile Cart's demands this, this end result of this as a method can easily become a very expensive activity if a unwanted mistake is made.

If a revisit to alignment is to happen, do remember there are individuals who prefer a Tweaked alignment, it lens itself more to their preferences. A tweaked to the VTA, are commonly done as the following tweaks:

'Heel Down' is sometimes selected for adding to the Sense of Weight/Dulling, where as Toe Down as a tweak is seen to add to the Steeliness/Brightness. 

I have seen these produced to the extreme that the eye can easily detect the angle produced, but have no knowledge of how such a excess impacts on the Sonic produced.

As I am with a History of being very social as a participant in this Pass Time/ Hobby I have been fortunate to have built friendships, and this has lead on to the invites to Demo's of devices and loaning/being loaned devices.

I have been demo'd numerous Phon's produced as Valve Input/Output, Valve Hybrid and SS Designs, as well as having owned all three designs of which the Valve Types still remain in use. Included in these experiences has been the introduction to a large range of SUT's, I have experienced enough from these to have a good handle on what they bring to the party, and have adopted the use of Two Winding Designs for my own usage, and feel quite confident another Brands Model which has thoroughly impressed and is with a USP of using a nano-crystalline core, will be added to my system in the not too distant future. 

As for Valves I have a friend who is a Second Generation Tube Collector with the inheritance of a family members extensive collection at hand. This individual has been extremely kind to the Local Hifi Group Members and has on occasions made available a broad range of Tubes from 70 Years to 40 Years Vintage as perfect matched pairs and quads to assist with Tube Rolling experiences on certain devices.

 I am sure a Home Trial of a few SUT's  can be achieved and maybe only incur a minimum cost if not wanted to be kept, the outlay will be well worth the experience gained.

As I sense you are interested in what a exchange of 6922's might create, the following might be useful if you look at Older Valve Models.

Note: A tested Brand New Matched Pair of Genalex Gold Lions had one Tube that the Valve Tester advised not to be used, even though it would produce a sound the measurements produced were a worry to the Valve Tester. 

The Older Tubes can prove to be a more awkward experience, but if carefully approached has proven for me to have a very successful experience as the outcome.

Note: Putting a duffer Valve into a Circuit can be detrimental to the Circuit, it is best practice to do ones utmost to ensure the purchased item is fit for the role it is selected for. 

I have arranged with Vendors that supplied Tubes are to undergo a re-test and depending on the outcome of my friends testing of supplied tubes, if the Tubes are a close match to the Vendors supplied test figures, the Tubes will be retained. If the Tubes measure quite different and for the worse, the Tubes are returned and purchase costs refunded. I have success with vendors who are agreeing to these conditions and have also honoured accepting the returns. I make these agreements outside of relying on Ebay Buyer Support.

Note: My experiences has been that 99% of the time, if a Vendor offers measurements, showing %age of life left in a Tube and more importantly if the NOT WANTED, 'Cathode Heater Leakage' is occurring, they are usually very accurate with their info, and a measurement on a different machine has reflected this accuracy.  

Ebay is your friend on this one, as Buyers are allowed to return if not satisfied.