Hi Danmar123
Interesting thread subject and based on two speakers that represent a clear change in direction and sound for the company.
I have always owned a set of B&W's since the 70's and various 800 series from the 80's onward.
Some comments you can consider. A bit of fun first, facts, some history and opinion.
The fun part first.
Over there are two birds that look like two ducks.
Upon moving closer differences are revealed.
They do share genetics, as when you look under the feathers, they both show the same tag.
But when they quack they sound different. So what gives?
You are not imagining things.
Some facts direct from from B&W based on your speakers.
804n
45Hz 20kHz ± 2dB on reference
8 ohms - 3 ohm minimum.
803 Matrix s2
26 hz - 20khz
sixth order butterworth with 25 hz cutoff with bass alignment filter.
8 ohms 3.7 ohms minimum.
The above tells me that your 803 are closer to full range. They will have a fuller sweeter sound and will go easier on your amplifier.
If, I had no idea who and what B&W was I would think that the 803 are a higher pecking order based on specs over the 804. Indeed this is the case.
So you are not comparing apples to apples here, no matter what equipment ends up in front of these speakers.
In fact two different design speakers under the same brand - more on this in a bit.
I owned the 803 s2 for a time back around '94 ? They were very nice, elegant speakers. Here is also a review from
Doug Schneider I still remember reading it and it influenced me in getting them.
I have also had both model nautilus and matrix series, for a period of time, same room/gear. In this case the 805 model.
These graphs
805 Matrix versus 805 Nautilus Stereophile Cabinet Resonances
Were lifted from Stereophile and show the results of cabinet resonances (Matrix 805 versus Nautilus 805).
A cumulative spectral-decay plot calculated from the output of an accelerometer fastened to the cabinet's side panel.
What can be seen is that even though the Nautilus 805 series claimed a Matrix construction, clearly the 805 Matrix and 805 Nautilus are not the same bodied duck.
Speaker makers make changes from one declared speaker version to the next version - just like car makers.
One needs to realize that the timing for the Matrix to Nautilus also happened when an extra big B&W company change was occurring. The 800 series Matrix line was the last line under the leadership of John Bowers. What followed for B&W was a change of leadership.
You can read more about the company changes
here
Like all businesses with new leaders / management, the (New Guy/Gal) is always anxious to institute immediate changes. They did just that. This resulted in new direction, objectives, and since this business is about speakers - a change in sound.
The opinion part.
These public chat forums are about opinions and sharing info. IMO - The new leadership took what was a smart "active speaker design" during a time of two channel audio focus, and changed the design to fit in more with the emerging multi channel Home Theater market. More bean counters were introduced. A very smart business move indeed. All B&W owners regardless of what kind of B&W they own should be happy with having such a strong company backing their speakers.
32Hz - 28kHz ±3dB on reference axis
This is the frequency response for the flagship 800d as published on the B&W info sheet. The 800 model namesake is no longer a full range speaker on its own. I have seen/heard two rooms with 800d in the past. In both cases a subwoofer/s was used.
One was a two channel audio setup. The other was a Home Theater setup.
If your thread was in the Home Theater section I would not have included this last bit of info here. As speakers with subs is the norm in HT. But this being an audiophile forum, and this post being in the speaker section, I thought it was relevant to show where the company focus went. Again IMO.
So imo assuming both of your speakers are functioning properly you are not imagining things. I also heard big differences in presentation of 2 channel music in my room between nautilus 805 and matrix 805 w/bass alignment filter as designed to be run by John Bowers.
Thanks for letting me ramble here. And don't let the gear get in the way of the music.
Cheers and good listening.
Interesting thread subject and based on two speakers that represent a clear change in direction and sound for the company.
I have always owned a set of B&W's since the 70's and various 800 series from the 80's onward.
Some comments you can consider. A bit of fun first, facts, some history and opinion.
The fun part first.
Over there are two birds that look like two ducks.
Upon moving closer differences are revealed.
They do share genetics, as when you look under the feathers, they both show the same tag.
But when they quack they sound different. So what gives?
You are not imagining things.
Some facts direct from from B&W based on your speakers.
804n
45Hz 20kHz ± 2dB on reference
8 ohms - 3 ohm minimum.
803 Matrix s2
26 hz - 20khz
sixth order butterworth with 25 hz cutoff with bass alignment filter.
8 ohms 3.7 ohms minimum.
The above tells me that your 803 are closer to full range. They will have a fuller sweeter sound and will go easier on your amplifier.
If, I had no idea who and what B&W was I would think that the 803 are a higher pecking order based on specs over the 804. Indeed this is the case.
So you are not comparing apples to apples here, no matter what equipment ends up in front of these speakers.
In fact two different design speakers under the same brand - more on this in a bit.
I owned the 803 s2 for a time back around '94 ? They were very nice, elegant speakers. Here is also a review from
Doug Schneider I still remember reading it and it influenced me in getting them.
I have also had both model nautilus and matrix series, for a period of time, same room/gear. In this case the 805 model.
These graphs
805 Matrix versus 805 Nautilus Stereophile Cabinet Resonances
Were lifted from Stereophile and show the results of cabinet resonances (Matrix 805 versus Nautilus 805).
A cumulative spectral-decay plot calculated from the output of an accelerometer fastened to the cabinet's side panel.
What can be seen is that even though the Nautilus 805 series claimed a Matrix construction, clearly the 805 Matrix and 805 Nautilus are not the same bodied duck.
Speaker makers make changes from one declared speaker version to the next version - just like car makers.
One needs to realize that the timing for the Matrix to Nautilus also happened when an extra big B&W company change was occurring. The 800 series Matrix line was the last line under the leadership of John Bowers. What followed for B&W was a change of leadership.
You can read more about the company changes
here
Like all businesses with new leaders / management, the (New Guy/Gal) is always anxious to institute immediate changes. They did just that. This resulted in new direction, objectives, and since this business is about speakers - a change in sound.
The opinion part.
These public chat forums are about opinions and sharing info. IMO - The new leadership took what was a smart "active speaker design" during a time of two channel audio focus, and changed the design to fit in more with the emerging multi channel Home Theater market. More bean counters were introduced. A very smart business move indeed. All B&W owners regardless of what kind of B&W they own should be happy with having such a strong company backing their speakers.
32Hz - 28kHz ±3dB on reference axis
This is the frequency response for the flagship 800d as published on the B&W info sheet. The 800 model namesake is no longer a full range speaker on its own. I have seen/heard two rooms with 800d in the past. In both cases a subwoofer/s was used.
One was a two channel audio setup. The other was a Home Theater setup.
If your thread was in the Home Theater section I would not have included this last bit of info here. As speakers with subs is the norm in HT. But this being an audiophile forum, and this post being in the speaker section, I thought it was relevant to show where the company focus went. Again IMO.
So imo assuming both of your speakers are functioning properly you are not imagining things. I also heard big differences in presentation of 2 channel music in my room between nautilus 805 and matrix 805 w/bass alignment filter as designed to be run by John Bowers.
Thanks for letting me ramble here. And don't let the gear get in the way of the music.
Cheers and good listening.