@oldrooney They’re adequately matched even though I have the phono set to level 2 rather than 1? As for my next question, and I know what is going to happen as. soon as I ask this...are you happy with the Freya + over the Freya S which technically measures better? I’ve never gone down the tube road before...
Weak Link in Vinyl Playback
Hi Everyone,
I’m looking for some input on a weak link in my system, mostly in regards to my vinyl playback chain in a 12’x11’ room.
I currently have a Technics SL-1700 MK1 with an AT-VM95ML cartridge. The turntable is connected to an iFi Zen Phono. The phono is connected to a Schiit Saga S via 3 ft. Blue Jeans BJC LC-1 cable, and the Saga runs to a single Schiit Vidar by the another set of the same cable. The Vidar is connected to Elac Debut B6.2’s via 10 ft. Belden 50000UE cable (as an aside, my digital path is Pro Ject S2 Pre Box Digital connected by the same 3ft. interconnects to the Saga>Vidar>speakers). I’ve connected a sub previously (a Martin Logan Grotto I that I inherited) to the Saga in the past, but am currently running without it.
My concern is that while the digital path sounds full to me, at least as much as can be expected, the vinyl path sounds a bit thin and weak. I guess I’d describe it as kind of lacking energy. My gut tells me the Saga S having 0 gain in both the passive and buffer mode (I run it in passive mode because it sounds more lifelike to me but I’ve used the buffer in the past as well) is the reason for this, but I’m not positive. I’m ready to upgrade to the Freya S if that’s the solution, but I didn’t want to start throwing money at a problem without really narrowing it down first. The Zen phono is set to MM and gain 1, which should be correct for my cartridge, the interconnects aren’t overly long (the speaker cable being 10’ isn’t too big a deal, I think?), the Vidar should be driving my inefficient speakers with no issue and judging by the digital path, it is.
I’m hoping someone here can weigh in on what would make the biggest positive impact in my listening and give me the oomph I think I’m missing. For what it’s worth, I plan on doing some room treatment down the road, but that’s not what I’m looking for advice on at the moment.
Thanks!
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- 103 posts total
@nlitworld I’d love for it to be a free or cheap fix! Tracking force is 1.8g-2.2g, standard at 2.0 which is where I’m set and I did dial in the tracking on the turntable before setting that but have not measured with a digital scale. Platter mat is the original that came with the 1700, 3mm thick. Record listening is all over the place as far as vinyl weight. Tonearm is not perfectly level on a record, I don’t know how one would do that on my table because the height on the arm isn’t adjustable.
Like I said, there isn't one specific area I find lacking, i.e. dead bass or no highs, it just sounds a little weak overall, like adequate power isn't reaching the amp so I'm trying to find what ins't producing enough. |
@owl9113 I’m just going by the manufacturer’s specifications for your cartridge, AT-VM95ML which is not that much different than the Shibata-tipped model (except it is a lot cheaper). The impedance loading at the phono stage should be 47 kilOhms and the capacitance loading should be between 100 and 200 picoFarads. These are fairly standard values. Your cartridge puts out 3.5 milliVolts, which is higher than the standard 2.5 mV, you should be fine at a gain of ‘1’ (36 dB of gain, although Ifi allows you to move up to a gain of ‘2’ if the system is not producing enough volume. However, as the Ifi manual states, on p. 18 in their FAQ “How do I Know which Cartridge Setting is Right for Me” that you may well not be able to match the volume of CDs or downloads because vinyl recordings are less ‘loud’ since they encompass a greater dynamic range than CDs or downloads [due to the ‘loudness wars of the 80’s, etc.] (contra @nlitworld above, and from my experience, vinyl recordings are quieter, but the needles bounce more). Edit: The Crutchfield add cited various capacitance loadings, but I could find no reference in the Ifi manual. Again, the capacitance issue, while critical if not correct, should be ‘close enough’ at this point in your audio journey. You can keep it in mind when you decide to upgrade from the Ifi Zen in your system now, but I still am with Herb on this one, your immediate problem in getting satisfactory performance from your system is the lack of gain at the preamp. Scratch where you itch, you’ll feel better for it. |
@owl9113, @jasonbourne71 makes a point about passive volume controls. They interact with the output impedance of your sources, in this case the DAC and your phono stage, both of which have to drive your amplifier thru the passive control, which can really increase the source impedance that the amplifier sees (this is bad, in case there's any question). Its highly unlikely that both have the same output impedance! Because of that its very possible that the phono section is working alright, but is placed in a bad light simply on this account. So its worth trying to run the line stage active rather than passive. |
- 103 posts total