I might also add that I have limited test equipment available: a frequency generator and analog oscilloscope, the DATS V3 Audio Test System for component testing, and a miniDSP UMIK-1 microphone, boom mike holder, and the free-to-download Room Equalization Wizard (REW) software package which I’m currently learning to use.
From whence does Sound Stage come?
What drew me back to this hobby after dabbling in High School, was listening to a friend’s system, in a room over his garage filled with over-stuffed furniture, at least seven different amplifiers and twice that many speakers. What was new to me was a room literally filled with sound, and I couldn’t tell where it was coming from. I climbed over the furniture and put my ear to speaker after speaker, but I was never able to locate the source of the sound. It was a wonderful, awe-filled, experience.
Fast forward to the present. I have now built several systems, in different rooms, with different components. Sometimes I get a ‘sound stage’ where the speakers disappear, sometimes I don’t. I have been told that getting the speakers to disappear is all a matter of placement in the room: “Give me your room dimensions; and I’ll tell you where to place your speakers.” But I can tell you, some speakers disappear, and some speakers announce their presence with every note. I have had odd staging where a particular sound appeared un-naturally at the wrong place (like a cymbal hit at my feet); only to have the issue resolved to a more coherent shape with an upgrade to the analog output stage of the DAC. I have had a decent sound stage cast by a particular pair of speakers, only to have it destroyed with the use of a sub-par power amplifier. I’ve heard reviewers and designers talk about how their component offers sound stage depth as well as width (depth seems to be more difficult to achieve). And then there is the old canard about how tube amps present a ‘halo graphic’ sound stage. I can detail the equipment configurations that have I have put together that succeeded or failed at the goal of presenting a great sound stage, but I’m trying to ask a general question, I am not a bot, and I’m not seeking help with a particular configuration, just help on developing a strategy to tackle the issue of sound stage and imaging of instruments within it.
I will say that the best sounding solutions I have developed thus far both involved a Schiit Yggdrasil (now at ‘Less-is-More) into a SS McIntosh C100 (circa 1992) and either a tube Rogue ‘Stereo 100’ or a SS McIntosh MC252 power amp powering either the Warfedale W70E or B&W 801 Matrix speakers. If I substitute different amps, speakers, preamp, or DAC, the pyramid crumbles and I start hearing two speakers again; I lose my ‘sound stage,’ which is really concerning (to me). Anyone with more than two years into this hobby is qualified to address this question. I need some help, I can’t just keep throwing equipment (and money) at this issue. Any ideas?
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@rodman99999 After thinking 💭 over your response and pondering the content you referenced, the answer to the original question, ‘From whence comes Sound Stage?’ The answer might well be, ‘from inside your head’ (not yours of course, but mine, or any listener). In other words, it is a psychoacoustic phenomenon that system configuration, component selection, and room treatment can either enhance or destroy, and that is different for every individual. Amazing, when you think of it. It is possible for me to tune my system and room to near perfection, yet you might miss most of what I enjoy; and I likewise for your system. May be the reason I’m drawn to this hobby. |
Most of the time my laptop sounds like they usually do. Every once in a while I come across a YouTube video with music that makes my laptop throw a soundstage. It really is quite remarkable. This makes me think: exact same speakers, in exact same place, with exact same amp, through same internet, YouTube, etc. Only the source changed, yet this alone is enough to throw a remarkably improved sound stage.
You already heard your current speakers throw great imaging. Sometimes, anyway. Sometimes. Just like my laptop. Since they can do it, then if this goes away it must be something else. Main difference being, in a laptop everything stays the same except the whatever it is you're playing. With your system, in brief, you got a whole 500 word paragraph of things that can change.
The laptop proves its the source that matters. In your case, everything feeding into the speakers can be thought of as "the source". |
@edisoncarter Point taken. My friend in whose house I first heard a decent sound stage tells me I need to use better sources. Thanks for the response. |
In my room my soundstage was recording dependant... The best to test soundstage is to use classical music recordings... Organ recorded in church and chorus music was the best for my test... Sometimes well recorded piano or quatuor...
I dont have experience between many speakers... My past speakers were two-way box Mission Cyrus, and i was able to make them disapear completely only after extensive room tuning... Because each room is different i cannot help you much...But the recording is what gives the soundfield not the gear if the gear is well matched and if the speakers are well chosen and IF THE ROOM IS adapted and tuned for the speakers ...... i have no idea how to create a soundstage filling all my room apart from acoustic treatment and control... Some gear can produce a soundstage filling a room WITHOUT acoustic disposition in the room ?... I dont believe that but i want to know if it is possible ? It is not my experience but i dont have many high cost gear experience ... I manage to do it with low cost components but acoustic was the primary tools.. I remember listening Magnepan in a living room, the sound filled the room contradicting what i just said with no acoustic tuning, it is true, but the sound quality was not perfect because there was no room tuning... Then i prefered my inferior designed 2-way box speakers way more adapted acoustically to my room ... Even if big magnepan can be way better in other acoustic settings.. I think acoustic is the main problem for us all...
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