Some observations from a former skeptic - and a question


I had been firmly in the camp that power cables made little difference.  A few years ago, I purchased an AQ Niagara 5000 (very nice improvement by itself BTW) and had auditioned various power cables with it.  Nothing too fancy but I found differences difficult to perceive so I just used AQ Monsoon cables. However, I continued to read how others felt power cables had the most impact which I found curious. 

I recently decided to move the Niagara to a system in another home and was planning on getting another Niagara 5000. My local dealer (who carries both AQ and Nordost) suggested I try the Nordost QB 8 MK III which he claimed to be a notable improvement over the MK II variant.

I compared the Nordost and Niagara in home and found them different but not dramatically so. The Nordost I thought a bit more dynamic, the Niagara a bit “blacker” in background.

The same dealer was surprised and suggested we do an In-store demo of power cables going into the QB 8 (great move by the local dealer!).

And there it was. The benefit was clearly there in improved spatial cues - the better cables were more “open”. I tried the same thing in my system - and same result. Unfortunately, power cables do matter. I will note that the AQ Niagara - as much as I liked it (and it was the first conditioner that I heard that made a big difference) - was somewhat negating the impact of the higher end power cables (a nice benefit in hindsight). 

Power cables don’t make as much a difference as interconnects or high quality digital cables (to my ears, in my system) but the benefits are there depending on your budget and appetite for going down the proverbial rabbit hole. 

As an aside, despite Nordost’s claim otherwise, the dealer and I both found the cable from the wall to the QB8 the least impactful and the cable(s) from the QB8 to the amp and source most impactful.

My system now is mostly Valhalla 2s (interconnects and A/C from QB 8 to components. I never expected to get here given my previous experiences.

I need one more A/C cable to complete my loom - for my processor (part of my digital stack). I auditioned a Tyr 2 and it made a notable difference. Unfortunately.

My total expenditure in cables is now equal to the cost of the rest of my system which seems crazy on the surface, but the results have been really rewarding - and more audible than most component upgrades. 

Which leads me to a question: 

How does this group think an Odin 1 (several available on this website) would match with my Valhalla 2 loom? I’m gathering many users feel that Valhalla 2s are > Odin 1s.

I could just stick w/ Tyr 2 on that unit though the cost differentials are not that great between new Tyr 2 and used Odin 1, but Valhalla 2s are up there.  

Thoughts?

 

 

 

 

mgrif104

It’s so easy to set up a double pole double throw manual knife switch with the two cables being compared.

If I was an honest non-snake oil cable manufacturer and wanted to get super wealthy from selling a great cable I would set up some good blind studies with audiophiles at an audio show or wherever. The results would be clear and everyone would buy my cables and I would be rich.

I guess cable makers don’t want to do that. They don’t have to. And if they did it might be like shooting themselves in the foot.

Whatever cable manufacturers do, it does not really matter. People who use cables will continue to buy cables. And people who don’t use cables, will never buy them, no matter what. Raging in the internet is much easier 

To all - I started this thread to share an experience which greatly surprised me and which I thought might be interesting to some and perhaps encouraging to others. It certainly has generated some interest…

 

@ahuvia 

Thank you for the thoughtful and respectful post.  Our youngest is pursuing her dual PhDs in Ann Arbor. Fun town but we rarely get to visit as she’s pretty busy as you can imagine.

Just to reiterate a few things - I respect your position as a skeptic. Your original post implied little room for you being open to the idea that there were perceivable differences. But your follow up post clarifies this. 

As you note, I did try to remove those elements that might have caused my own cognitive bias. Aware of my own shortcomings here, I try to be somewhat careful with money.  However, I will politely reject the notion that I was clouding my bias to to garner social status. Smiling as I write this, I would not spend money on cables to boost my status on Audiogon forums. I belong to no audio clubs. No one but my wife knows what I’ve purchased (brands or amount spent) and all the affirmation I get from her on these purchases is “really? Whatever.” :) Yes, she indulges my fun.

@ossicle2brain The flip switch concept is interesting as a aid in this  - I never thought of that.  Of course, there would still be a sizable pause between cables as equipment should be shut off to avoid the big pulse. Further, my digital gear reboots after losing power. 

I’ll put some thought to a different way to do this. If I could find a way to make a high quality recording, I’d happily post those files to this forum without identifying which is which and let the forum participants weigh in. Unfortunately, I lack high quality recording gear and I don’t think going upstream there is a good spend, but if I can borrow some, I’ll do so.

Lastly, I reinforce the idea that differences in these cables can be successfully measured. I won’t dispute that there is massive subjectivity in what is good, but our ears are relatively sensitive instruments. Why can a power cord make a difference despite all the mileage to the house and the cabling in our walls?

As previously noted, I’m not a materials scientist - nor an electrical engineer but it’s worth noting that electricity does not actually flow through our cables like water through a pipe. Perhaps the best analogy I can come up with is that electricity is more akin to  sympathetic resonance across all connections. In this construct, it’s easier to conceptualize why every segment of cable acts as both transmitter and antenna.  

I was still highly skeptical going in to this - and doubts re-enter my mind. But, I’ll kick back and listen to some music. It seems to be sounding better than ever.  If it’s placebo - so be it. It sounds damn good!

Peace.

@mgrif104 Dual PHDs? Wow, that kid must really love school. In what? I teach in the Bschool on the UM-Dearborn campus, although I also have an appointment on the Ann Arbor campus where I live. Next time you come to town to visit her, schedule a little extra time and bring some cables. I'll provide the stereo, the beverage of your choice, and someone to swap power cords so we didn't know what we were listening to. It would be fun to see if we could hear a difference.