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The mistake armchair speaker snobs make too often

Recently read the comments, briefly, on the Stereophile review of a very interesting speaker. I say it’s interesting because the designers put together two brands I really like together: Mundorf and Scanspeak. I use the same brands in my living room and love the results.

Unfortunately, using off-the-shelf drivers, no matter how well performing, immediately gets arm chair speaker critics, who can’t actually build speakers themselves, and wouldn’t like it if they could, trying to evaluate the speaker based on parts.

First, these critics are 100% never actually going to make a pair of speakers. They only buy name brands. Next, they don’t get how expensive it is to run a retail business.

A speaker maker has to sell a pair of speakers for at least 10x what the drivers cost. I’m sorry but the math of getting a speaker out the door, and getting a retailer to make space for it, plus service overhead, yada yada, means you simply cannot sell a speaker for parts cost. Same for everything on earth.

The last mistake, and this is a doozy, is that the same critics who insist on only custom, in-house drivers, are paying for even cheaper drivers!

I hope you are all sitting down, but big speaker brand names who make their drivers 100% in house sell the speakers for 20x or more of the actual driver cost.

Why do these same speaker snobs keep their mouth shut about name brands but try to take apart small time, efficient builders? Because they can.  The biggest advantage that in-house drivers gives you is that the riff raft ( this is a joke on an old A'gon post which misspelled riff raff) stays silent.  If you are sitting there pricing speakers out on parts cost, shut up and build something, then go sell it.

erik_squires
erik_squires OP
16,892 posts
 

Let’s take the example of excellent $10,000 speakers with in-house custom drivers. Most people have no idea how much the drivers cost, so you never read about it in reviews and you don’t have hens showing up to nit pick them on part cost.

There’s no way those retail store speakers have more than $1,000 in drivers. You can’t maintain a speaker company for more than that. In addition, even with brands I really really like, I posit they are closer to 5-7% of cost in drivers. So they may spend $750 in the drivers, while selling you a $10,000 speaker.

I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with that, but I am saying that your opinion of the speaker brand and quality will be altered just by knowing the cost of the drivers.  That Class-A rating and glowing show reports will absolutely have you reaching for your wallet, and calling them giant-killers so long as you have no idea of the driver cost.

The exact same speaker, with the same review, and performance is suddenly not worth a listen when you know the actual driver cost.   And this is where the small cottage builder is at a complete disadvantage.  They may in fact use more expensive parts than the mega-brands but you don't know the mega-brand part cost so you can't look down on them the same way.

So please for heaven’s sake stop doing that to little brands with off the shelf components when they are great products and amazing deals.  We need more cottage-industry builders, not fewer.

asvjerry's avatar
asvjerry
5,096 posts
 

@erik_squires ..can't see the chair, so armchair may not apply 'exactly'....*G*
Don't recognise you as a snob, tho'; there's a +...

Mine fold back, so entry/exit is less 'precise'...

A decidedly aggressive desktop variant, Yes. Gives mind to the old Maxcell ads with the guy in the chair.... ;)

fleschler
2,046 posts
 

Especially Kenjit and a few others who base retail price on parts costs.  Ridiculous.  

I am most interested in upgrading my Legacy original Focus speakers in a high end system with my hopefully final speakers after 50 years of about a dozen speakers (Focus for 20 years, ML Monolith IIIs for about 10 years, Acoustats X, 1+1 and 2+2 for another 10 years prior. 4 other cheap box speakers prior).  

Names I am listening to are Acora Acoustics (great American speaker), Aequo Adamantis, Zellaton Plural Evo (probably the end) and cannot afford Von Schweikert Ultra 7 or Rockport Orion.  Rejected mass produced B&W, dislike Magico, Wilson and YG.

I demand a lot from my speakers now.  They fail in dispersion and box sound (they don't disappear) and ambiance/imaging/soundstaging.  It's going to cost a lot to retain all the benefits of a dynamic, full sounding speaker which is easy to drive and fits into a moderate size custom listening room.  

I don't want horns, stats, ribbons or planars.  I need a speaker which can deliver both intimate and huge sounds, from guitar, vocal, harp, etc. to symphonies, opera, big band and heavy metal.  That's a lot to ask for and the speaker designers I'm interested in listen to and appreciate acoustical music (mostly European manufacturers with a few U.S.).  B&W make great quality speakers at a reasonable price but their tonal balance is just unappealing.  

Small manufacturers can only make a limited quantity of a superior product.  They also cannot afford massive marketing costs and rely on word of mouth. It's a very tough business model and hate the complainers that just total up the parts costs to establish a sales price.  

soix
10,346 posts
 

@fleschler I’d suggest adding the Joseph Audio Pearl, Usher TD20, Verity Audio Arindal, Vandersteen Kento, and Boenicke W13 SE  to your list given what you’re looking for.  FWIW, and happy hunting!

kota1
2,706 posts
 

@fleschler

I demand a lot from my speakers now.

I demand a lot OF speakers now, You have a very nice room, go with a 7.2.4 setup and enjoy the thrills. Think, you can get a LOT more dynamics and imaging from coverage of 11 speakers plus two subs than just one pair of speakers. Get these active Focals and save your money on buying more amps or rack space. I know there might be some "snobs" in this thread that frown on pro gear, don't let that stop you:

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ImmersiveSysF--focal-7.14-immersive-audio-studio-monitor-system

 

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