The mistake armchair speaker snobs make too often

If using a DEQX, then you might as well by your speakers at K-Mart. :)  Yea, I had one.  Great for a PA system. Not HI-FI.  Not even HT.  The last thing I want to do to my stereo is add a $2 A2D and D2A in the chain with Op-Amps worse than 5558's and electrolytic caps even if the DSP was half decent. Now, setting up for a small band in some unknown club, I would not be without one.  Never done a stadium so don't know about that. 

I get the comments on very high sound pressure, but as I like my hearing to remain in tact, I do not consider that part of HI-FI.  My humble stand mount 6 inch 2-ways can exceed permeant hearing damage thank you.  One can do a DeApolitto MTM and reduce upper bass distortion at "Who concert" levels but at higher SPL, you can't hear the difference and if you play that loud, you just can't hear any more. 

PA is of course a totally different animal where the problems of multiple driver comb filtering are overshadowed by getting the sound to the back of the room. ( Line arrays of those nice  JBL's and compression horns)   I don't think the markup is PA is as high as residential. Neither is fidelity. I agree, separate the adults from boys. Adults know better than to use PA systems in small rooms. We all did that as boys of course. 

I also get what you are saying if you are replicating some ego-prestige all-in-the-name bragging rights like WAMM though I think you should look at that it takes to design and build such a monstrosity. ( I am not a fan having heard most of their line over the years starting with Watt/Puppies. )    But, do you think you can out-do ELAC on a D6.1?  Can you equal a Dynaudio Special 40, Focal, Sonas Faber, Even a Kef R3?  Size and price real people can pay?   

Now we have increasing direct sales cutting out the importer, distributor and retail chain. ( we still pay that on components)  So the equivalent cost is about half of the traditional chain. They do have to cover the cost of returns though.  An example may be Taylor who puts together a seeming well worked out SB 2-way quite reasonably. If you want to touch entry level as cheap as possible, then a flat-pack CSS kit and a can of spray paint is far cheaper than even direct sales for similar quality and the design work is done. Just glue it together. Some of the Bagby  or Zaph designed kits are not bad.  GR has kits. I don't really consider a kit the same as DIY.  It is just slapping together some one else's work.  

@tvrgeek

Welcome to the forum, I appreciate your sharing experience with DEQX (Attention K-Mart shoppers, blue light special in aisle 5) .🤣

Can you please post pics of your system? Would really like to see. Thanks

@kota1 wrote:

It "burns" me when I see a product trashed from an audio "snob" that simply mismatched the speaker to the amp, the cable, or the room.

A bundled, active speaker is a preconfigured package drawing in particular on the advantage of having its amp channels looking directly into their respective driver segments, as well as having minimized cable influence. It's also an easy plug-and-play solution. The room however is still a variable that needs attention as a separate measure, and you’re also left with accepting a choice of amps that mayn’t suit your preference if you actually had different options to go by and compare to each other. Actively amp choice is less critical, but it’s still a factor - both technically and subjectively.

If you go outboard active you can have even better and more powerful amps. Although less power is generally needed actively for the same SPL compared to a passive scenario, not to mention providing power indendancy between the different driver segments where a more power hungry bass section will leave the HF segment unaffected (the same of course goes for a bundled config.), more power can come in handy for even lower distortion and more headroom.

You’ll have longer cables with outboard active, yes, but look at JBL’s prime monitor, the M2’s. They come sans passive crossover (safe perhaps a capacitor over the D2 driver for its protection), and with no built-in amp or electronic/digital crossover needs to be fed externally. JBL recommends the sibling company (owned by Harman) Crown I-Tech 5000HD with DSP, an off-the-shelf item that wasn’t in any way designed around the M2’s, but it has sufficient power (1,250W/8 ohm) and overall quality. Not a smaller version to the top section, no, but two similar 5000HD’s. Why wouldn’t JBL go bundled with their top monitor if it (supposedly) meant the world into über-specialized amp-driver integration with a differentiated amp topology approach? My guess: not only don’t they find it worth it, but on the contrary they may find it the preferred route qualitatively going outboard active with two similar amps for the best coherency, while giving the customer the option of other amp/DSP choices - cable influence be damned. As they say: forest for the trees..

@phusis 

If you go outboard active you can have even better and more powerful amps.

Bryston has a line of active speakers, an outboard crossover that you can BYOA (bring your own amp). I know Bryston makes great amps but I would prefer a Sunfire 7400 or 7401. You can choose their outboard BAX-1 crossover OR (my preference) use their SP4 HT processor  for the crossovers and DSP.

https://bryston.com/active-loudspeakers/

Why wouldn’t JBL go bundled with their top monitor if it (supposedly) meant the world into über-specialized amp-driver integration with a differentiated amp topology approach?

I often thought the same thing, it must have been a decision of the marketing dept.

I have pictures, but not sure how to post.  The control ribbon asks for a URL. Other forums give the option for a local file. I want to imbed, not link. 

Here is my simple desk, the first system NOT to have any edge to Joni Mitchel, Judy Collins etc. It plays plenty loud with the 2W.  I stuck a 1 1/4 fan on the Schiit heat sink. Totally silent and it dropped the temp over 20 degrees. 

PC, JRiver, wasapi exclusive, asynchronous, with -3 dB gain, 100ms buffer. I use the JRiver eq to tame a 115Hz mode. No other eq. 

JDS Atom+ stack.  Schiit REKKR amp and my own Dayton RS/VIfa speakers, Dayton 8 inch sup and plate.  I have .22uF caps in the lines going to the Rekkr. 

I use a USB controlled relay to power on the audio stack. 

Main system has my workshop Elacs as I am in the process of painting my main speakers (Seas ER18/SBs)  Amp is an old Hafler chassis with my own MOSFET amp in it. Same combo for the music server but testing the Topping DX3pro plus right now.  JDS I think is smoother, My Asgard not quite. I use an Emotiva DC blocker as I had DC issues when I had a Parasound amp with a toroid transformer, a Pyle sequencer controlled by the PC USB to power on and off everything. O-Audio amp.  The chest in the picture is the sub. I had to give the matching one away as there was just no room for it, but doing REW and True64 tests, my bass is not a problem so no eq needed. Focal 906's should get here tomorrow as they measure well but were strange in the only shop that has them. Something was funny so I ordered a pair while they are less than half price. ( being replaced maybe?) I suspect I can beat them as they have metal domes which I basically don;t like, but execution is everything so giving them a try. The only speakers in a store that actually impressed me are the Lumina IIs. A lot were quick "NO!" I was listening to any bookshelf under 5K. 

I do nothing exotic with cables. Short as possible, twist the zip cord etc. Just decent as all that esoteric stuff if it has any positive effect, is above my hearing. ( Some is worse and I can hear that) 

My third system is HT. Anthem AVR, more Dayton/Seas speakers as wall plates. Panasonic 4K player.  In the shop I use the Elac's with an old Kenwood tuner and the Fosi V3. Makes noise. 

In my last house, I had my morning system, a Creek integrated, Kenwood tuner, and older Boston in-wall speakers. 

I have sold off my pile of of stuff I was not using. Trying to clear out anything we have not used in 5 years. I am sure when finished fooling with DACs, I'll have several. Sold off my Rotels, Parasounds, Denons, Haflers and DIY amps.  Denon, Rotel, Sony, OPPO players.  Dumped all the Berhringer, Rolls, DBX stuff. APT, Hafler, Nakamichi, DIY preamps. All my tube stuff.