Just a couple of thoughts. Before you go and buy a new player, have you cleaned all the contacts and the ends of the interconnects? It can make a difference.The second would be, to get it checked out by a repair department you trust.
All the best.
Old CD player back from the dead—prompting many questions!
Now I have questions! (Caution: This may be boring)
For many years (almost 20) I ran a California Audio Labs Icon MkII CD player, purchased new for something like $1500 (a lot of $ back in the late 1990s, for me) and I gave up vinyl (yes, I am an old heretic). It was very highly rated back then.
About 6 years ago I was overhauling my whole system after my beloved 20 year old McCormack DNA-1 amp died (yes, I keep my gear a long time), so I put the CalAudio into deep storage, thinking it was old, and got a well-rated Rega Apollo CDP II cd player. $1200, iirc, and I was very happy with it. I don’t have super deep pockets for audio, and love great bang for the buck. I had been tempted a few years ago, before streaming, to get the Bryston CD player, which one reliable audio reviewer said could be his last CD player, but it was $4000. I just read glowing reviews last night of CD players for $10,000-20,000 but that ain’t happenin’!
Since then I have gone almost 100% to streaming (Small Green Computer Sonictransporter and Sonore MicroRendu, which may get upgraded soon to the Ultra or Optical model Rendu) using Tidal and Roon. In 2018 I bought a (well-reviewed by Robert Harley) DAC/preamp by Audio Alchemy, which I still use though I covet the new T+A 200 DAC/preamp and several other DACs. I am thinking of getting an integrated amp (Aesthetix Mimas) or mono blocks, and until I sort that out I am stuck in place. As they say, you only solve one variable in an equation at a time, and I hate auditioning. For me, if I won the lotto, I would hire a brilliant consultant to hold my hand and help me build my end-game system.
I kept and ripped all my 700+ CDs, but only occasionally play them. I have been pleasantly surprised that when I have A-B’d CD vs streamed hi-res and MQA tracks via Roon, the quality is very close and in the case of MQA, sometimes better (let’s not start an MQA argument!). This week, I fired up the Apollo and grabbed a few favorite CDs I use to audition gear at dealers, especially Alison Kraus & Union Station’s "New Favorite". My Apollo started skipping and stuttering! What the what? For 6 years it’s been flawless. I found their main non-warranty repair guy in CA and emailed and spoke to him, and learned that Rega has discontinued that Apollo II in favor of all-in-one CD/DAC players. Grrr. My unit is repairable for about $325 he thinks, so it will get shipped today. I continue to use it once repaired, and the CalAudio will be the backup. I am now reading CD player reviews but given I mostly stream I am reluctant to spend $3000-4000 on a CD player for occasional use and would rather plow that money into a DAC and other components.
I dug out the old CalAudio Icon to see if it still worked, as a backup. Everything lit up, the tray opened, but pressing play—nothing. Unresponsive—dammit. So, I left it on and ran some errands and a few hours later pressed play and voila! I had music. I guess after 6 years it needed time to awaken from its deep sleep. When I last used it it was before my DAC/preamp, and I used an RCA connection then to my old passive line stage, but this time I am using SPDIF/coax into my DAC/preamp. And it sounds great! A-B testing with Tidal/Roon and it is so very close, which means it is nearly or as good as the Rega Apollo. I am actually a bit shocked... this is a 25 year old CD player!
❓Now to the questions:
➡ I would appreciate any thoughtful advice on CD players (to be used as a transport, though the really high-end ones often have excellent onboard DACS). How much is enough, the benefits of spending more than $1000-1500, etc. I have spent a ton of time reading DAC reviews and posts here.
Thanks for hanging in there on this long-winded tome! PD
(I’m running Vandersteen 2CE Signature III speakers (the latest) which may get upgraded to Treo CTs, though I have considered but not yet heard the Larsen 8 speakers). Random item: I’ve thought of getting monoblock amps, but wonder if those really offer something that a good stereo amp doesn’t (especially a true dual-mono amp). Maybe I will do a separate post after searching here.
Thanks to the OP for the detailed post and no, it wasn't boring. But my main accolade is for your diligence in comparing the sound quality of different sources by using a control. You are about the only other member here (besides me) who does it this way and interestingly, you and I have come to very similar conclusions. I have had quite a few CD players, DACs, and transports and my experience is that their sound quality differences are pretty subtle. In fact, it's usually difficult to make any sweeping comments at all about their sound. My control is a Marantz KI Ruby player. I have a Berkeley Audio Alpha Reference 2 MQA DAC, an Audio Mirror Tubadour IV DAC, a Black Ice FX Tube DAC, and a PS Audio PerfectWave Mk II DAC (soon for sale). I'm also running a Jay's Audio CD3 Mk III transport and I also use the KI Ruby as a transport. I just sold a PS Audio PerfectWave transport. I stream Qobuz through an ASUS ROG laptop using a USB connection. I'm running a pair of Thiel CS6 speakers with a Krell KRC2 preamp and KSA 300S amp. When I compare digital sources I always use a control. My method is to use my KI Ruby as the standard and compare other sources against it. I play a song through the Ruby and then play the song through the other source, being careful to match the volumes. The results have been consistent and somewhat disturbing. You might think that the $21K Berkeley would blow away the other sources but if it does, I can't hear it. You might also think that streaming through a laptop would be inferior to playing the corresponding CD through the same DAC. Well, not in my system. It sounds the same as the corresponding CD. Bottom line, I don't think that modern digital sources sound very much different than one another. Component selection comes down to features, price, and pride of ownership. Does my Jay's Audio transport + my Berkeley DAC blow away my KI Ruby? No, it doesn't. Am am I glad I bought the Jay's and Berkeley pieces? Yes, I love them. If I play a well recorded CD through them I can easily convince myself that it's the best sound I've every heard. But I'm afraid that I could easily fail an ABX blind test with my digital gear. |
8th-noteThank you—though it is clear that you are by far the more diligent tester, something at which I do not excel usually. Your array of digital gear is impressive in breadth and quality, and the conclusions you have drawn are fascinating to me and confirm some suspicions.
I have done the A-B test using my Rega CD player and Tidal (via Roon) from my SGC server/streamer, matching the levels and going back and forth, back and forth, on the same tracks that I know oh so well. The differences are minute, to me. Using same DAC and preamp. So, either my system (or ears!) isn’t resolving enough to hear the differences, or my playback devices don’t resolve to that level? I have read reviews by Jason Victor Serinus in Stereophile (he is a social media and email acquaintance and lives near me, but we haven’t met yet), and he details the nuanced differences he hears between MQA and non-MQA versions of different songs/records, and the noticeable improvements moving between high-end DACs. Typically using VERY high end gear. Maybe his hearing is better and his gear’s resolution is too. Same with reviews by Robert Harley and Jon Valin, but they are playing systems worth >$250,000 or more, sometimes 2-3X that. On the other hand, reviewer Steven Stone, who is all about finding gear affordable to Working Everyman, has reviewed DACs that he says are near-reference grade and they are in the $1,000-2,000 range and some even less! I am all about bang for the buck, and putting those bucks where I will yield the most improvement and easily heard results. When I read reviews talking about the dramatic improvement by going to this or that $10,000 to >30,000 DAC, I will certainly re-read your post. Maybe if one’s system if of the highest resolution it would be more evident? My modest system isn’t that. I think an upgrade to my speakers and preamp may yield the best improvements and ROI. DAC afterwards. The T+A 200 DAC/preamp is said to have a great DAC section (and is a better version of what I have with my Audio Alchemy, and almost the same form factor, a DAC/preamp), but I may go in the direction of a really good integrated (maybe Ayre or Aesthetix Mimas) and get a standalone DAC. |
curiousjimYes on the contacts. I have just shipped the Apollo off to be repaired (hopefully), and then I will have 2 working CD players. I am in no rush to do anything, which is perfect because I make hi-fi decisions at glacial speed! "The man who doesn't make a decision is making a decision." ~Yiddish proverb |
kb54 re:
Welllll, how much time do you have? 😂 I am resistant to change and changing favorite brands (loyal to a fault). When it came time to replace my 20 year old Vandersteen 2CEs about 3 years ago, I found a like-new pair of the well-reviewed Treo CTs at Audio Connection (Johnny Rutan) for $6k. So, I went and auditioned them against the newest 2CE Signature III at my local dealer, at great length. The Treos lived up to the reviews, and are superb but were $9000 new then ($10k now) and $3300 for the 2CE SigIII—no small difference. As I went back and forth between the 2CE SigIII and Treo, what jumped out at me is that the 2CE was excellent in comparison. I think it really deserves its place on the Absolute Sound List of 50 Greatest Buys in High End Audio. But—the Treo CT is also on that list! So, I got a new pair of 2CE SigIIIs to replace my old 2s.
That is the long-winded answer. The 2CE SigIII is a great speaker (and value) imo, and so is the Treo CT. It is all about budget, and there is no wrong answer if you love the Vandersteen sound, which I do. Had I big bucks, I would get the Quatro CTs—or better yet the Kentos—and Vandersteen monoblocks. (If @tomik, who has both the Treo CT and the Vandersteen 7, is reading this he will want to strangle me because he has seen/heard me do this back and forth too many times! Sorry!) |