DAC's from the past, are any of them really worth much today?

Excellent post and i concur with your experience...

Most people had no idea about the acoustic concept of timbre for example and the conditions of his experience in a room ...

Then when we dont know by understanding and experience what is "timbre" acoustic definition and perception what can we do ?

We focus on "details" for the sake of details as a alleged  meaningful artefact induced by the dac superior design ,  not on our controlled experience of "timbre" in the relation between our ears/speakers and the room and we forgot that the dac/ amp is only a small part of this experience so important they could be for sure  ...   ...

We focus on gear then  and on upgrade at all costs and we are the ideal candidate victim of mass market because the price tag  will  always tell the story for us , not   the acoustics basics and learnings and experiments so impactful they could be  ... And anyway other embeddings control may impact way more than a  dac, if this dac is already good to begin with , as the ratio of signal/noise in the house/room or the speakers vibrations and resonance ...

Lots of DAC threads recently. I agree, the better new cheap DACs are better than the esoteric from only a few years ago. Much has been learned in the filters implementation. Based on my listening, all the Chinese mass-produced DACS are excellent and all sound almost the same. Splitting hairs. Just returned a Qutest as it is more detailed on only a couple tracks, but edgier than my JDS, Topping, Schiit, SMSL, and Sabaj DACs. I don’t know what is different if you jump to the $4000 and up range or if you have access to true DSD or ultra high bit rate that actually has more information, not just the format. Almost all of my music is old enough to have been mastered on tape, so there is no such thing as highly detailed. The above is for just listening, If you want to get your microscope out and look for the tiniest of details, then you will find them. I have a new test. If I listen to a piece, walk out of the room and something is changed, or not, and I come back in, do I hear a difference reliably? If not, any difference is irrelevant. If you goal is ultra perfection, audible or not, or bragging how much you paid, then none of this matters. If I had to buy another DAC, PS: Older DACS with only SPDIF rely on the host clock. Newer DACs with USB, if well done, use the DAC clocking which can be far more accurate. A "good" DAC will have a galvanic isolated USB to prevent any host or cable interference. The Qutest does, as do the newer Schiits.

 

tvrgeek

... Almost all of my music is old enough to have been mastered on tape, so there is no such thing as highly detailed ...

Either there's something wrong with your system or you've been listening to the wrong material. Or both. Some of the most extraordinary recordings ever made originated on analog tape.

Current lower end DACs almost definitely have eclipsed a lot of the high end offerings from the past decades. The DAC is absolutely the wrong piece of gear to consider using most anything from the past unless one of the really high end and well reviewed pieces show up as a drop-dead cheap bargain ;-) Even then, if it were me, I'd spend my time and money on the newest and best I could afford. 

You are right in my book in spite of my  limited experience with dac ...

Current lower end DACs almost definitely have eclipsed a lot of the high end offerings from the past decades. The DAC is absolutely the wrong piece of gear to consider using most anything from the past unless one of the really high end and well reviewed pieces show up as a drop-dead cheap bargain ;-

 

cleeds,   

I don't listen to the "wrong material". I listen to what I like, not find music that shows of the kit.  I don't "train my ears" as some have suggested to find defects. A recording or mixing engineer would, but I want to enjoy music, not pick it apart. 

All of my music is Redbook.  I think I made it clear my analysis did not include true high bit rate original mastering. Don't have any. That may make a bigger difference though when demonstrated to me in stores, it did not. A 24 bit/192 remastered file of some worn out old tape or early digital is no better than a 16/44 as the detail is not there no matter how many bits you pad it with. 

Much of what I listen to preceded even Dolby A. 80 dB dynamic range about max on the masters, but likely less as the target was LP with only a 60 dB dynamic range.  Then mixed on boards that by todays standards would be bettered by a Berhringer semi-pro.  Even into the 80's boards were mostly NE5532's.  Then the first generations of digital. 14 bit Sony,  took a few years for the 18 and 24 mastering, as well as a big learning curve.  Adding the loudness wars where modern music has less than 60 dB dynamic range.  Let's not forget the pitch boxes.  Garbage in, garbage out even if you carry it in a gold plated bucket and wear rose colored glasses.  Fortunately that garbage can be totally involving music!

I do want to call out domestic small businesses that make the extra effort over chasing specs and actually listen to their products but don't add an ego price tax. Geselli, JDS, and Schiit for examples. There may be others.  They also provide support. Good luck getting that from China-Inc.