Electronics for Harbeths -- $5-10K


I've been looking for an amp/preamp or integrated to pair with my mid-sized Harbeth speakers (86dB sensitivity, minimum 6ohm impedance, ~50Hz crossover to a powered sub).

I've dug deep into Pass Labs, ARC, Levinson, HiFi Rose, PrimaLuna, Ayre, MF's Nu-Vista line, Hegel, etc. -- the usual suspects. But I haven't found a perfect fit, b/c I have a few constraining requirements:

- weight not much over 40 pounds

- an HT Bypass input and at least 2 line-level outputs (for powered sub & headphone amp); no digital inputs required

- I love well-designed tube gear, but in this case, I'm restricted to SS

In terms of sound -- the most important factor, of course -- I rarely't exceed moderate listening levels in a smallish room (10 ft to seating position).  I do, however, enjoy a large, three-dimensional presentation & uncompressed dynamics, and sonics more like the sweet, tubelike house sound of ARC & Pass than the "analytic" superdetailed sound of Luxman or Levinson (both outstanding companies, but just not the right fit in this case).  One motivator is that after recently switching to more revealing Analysis Plus Silver Apex cables, I find I can no longer stand the sound of my last-gen Class D amps.

A Pass Labs XA25 amp + SP-12 pre combo comes pretty close, but doesn't have quite enough power. MF's new NuVista 800.2 would be perfect if it didn't weigh nearly 90 pounds. 

Then there's Ayre's new VX-8 amp, or EX-8 integrated, sound great on paper, but which I know almost nothing about, aside from specs & a Stereophile review.  Anybody own one of these?

I have no opportunity to demo any of this gear live -- disabled & don't get out much -- but if anybody would like to recount their first-hand experience finding a soulmate for Harbeth speakers, I'll be listening. 

 

cundare2

OP- your initial rejection of Hegel seemed odd since that is a fairly well known synergistic combo.  The optional DAC is very good also.  While some discussions say that the sonic uptick for the H590 over the H390 is minor and not worth it, the new H600 seems to have significant trickle down tech upgrade.

If you can’t listen before purchasing, Hegel is safest bet. However, you can still resell it if unsatisfied and try something else.

Maybe a KRELL k-300i integrated - iBias technology allowing the amp to deliver up to the first 90W in class-A—"without the excessive heat and power consumption of traditional Class-A designs,". Review here

GanFet amps have a tubelike warmth, but hard to find in an integrated (LSA may have one).  

OP - this is simply copied from another agoner post, I’ve not verified anything:

 

That is a bit unfair. Shaw (Alan - Harbeth speaker designer) has talked about why he likes Hegel:
 

My position on Hegel is abundantly clear. It is the only hifi amp I have ever measured in my lab that has what I consider to be a proper gain structure throughout.

In layman's language that means that with a 'hot' source pumping audio volts into the input channel it is practically impossible to clip or overload the input. That indicates to me a mature, pragmatic real-world approach to the circuit design in a market where far too many amps have input stage clipping evidenced by the ridiculously low setting of the volume control (typically 10 o'clock or lower) at which the output clips. Hence a hard, hard, grainy sound. Indeed, I'd suspect that the extreme sensitivity of the volume control (hardly on, really loud) is prima facie evidence of clipping.

I have been playing P3XD over the last days via one of my H390s and with the volume at about 60/99, I have lots of power reserve and a clean, loud, unclipped sound.

OP , I suggest go for a Hegel. If you are unsatisfied then report back later why. It would give us a sonic reference point to your tastes and we may be able to steer you towards a more pleasing options.  Other choices we have to guess what ”you” like and speaker synergy more uncertain.

kennyc: Your last suggestion, on its face, is a logical approach. But you’ve got to understand that I’m not gonna buy a $10,000+ component unless I’m convinced that I’m likely to keep it for a very long time -- not just as a "tryout." I’ve mentioned elsewhere that I’m no spring chicken and lugging around a 50-pound box doesn’t seem like my best solution when a 24lb alternative that has more flexible connectivity (at least for my specific application) and that the overwhelming majority of those with first-hand listening experience believe is superior overall sonically, sells for $1000 less.

I sense that you have an emotional attachment to Hegel, so please don’t take offense. I’m not denigrating Hegel’s products in any way. I understand that the H600 is a superb piece of gear. It’s just that I’m now gathering that the Ayre EX-8, as far as I can tell from out here, is probably a better fit for me.

C

PS -- I was aware of Shaw’s preference for Hegel products and that Hegel amps are used in some shows’ Harbeth booths. In fact, during the first weeks of my research, the H590 & H600 were at the top of my list. It’s not fair to state that I "initially rejected" Hegel. It’s more accurate to say that I initially embraced the H600.

The thing is, the Ayre Series 8 gear turned out to be an even better choice. I suggest you do a deep dive yourself. Charlie Hansen’s "diamond" output-stage designs are brilliant -- Class A/AB amps as light, compact, and efficient as a Class D, but with superb sound quality. And from what I’ve been told repeatedly, they boast great synergy with the entire Harbeth line.

As for Krell, I’ve heard so many mixed reports about the 300i, hardware and sound quality, that I’m staying away. The clincher was when one of my closest friends on the East Coast auditioned it at length and came away with the same negative comments that I’ve heard elsewhere.  I can't speak to the issue first-hand, but the impression I get is that the 300i fails to live up to Krell's long-held reputation for excellent build quality.

ryder:

re: Luxman, I've never heard the new Lux gear.  When I refer to the Luxman sound as "analytical," I'm merely repeating what other, ostensibly unrelated, posters have told me.  I'm ready to be convinced otherwise, but, as I'm sure you can appreciate, I don't have much to work with other than what other people are telling me.  Again, no way for me to actually hear any of this gear before I buy.

Re: Silver Apex, your observations are exactly the opposite of mine.  The only time I rigorously A-B'd my SA cables was when I used them to replace wiring in my phono path.  They produced greater detail and a more holographic soundstage, sure, but they were less sweet and as far from tube-like as I can imagine. (Did I mention that I'm a vintage tube-roller going back 40 years? I know what tubes soudn like.) 

More to the point, one reason I'm upgrading my electronics now is because the Silver Apex's "analytic" character (sorry!) actually made the flaws of my $2000 Class D amps impossible to tolerate. 

I consider the difference between our experiences evidence  that the only way to know what a particular cable will sound like in your system is to put it in your system.  Cables are extraordinarily complex beasts and can interact with other components in the craziest ways.  That's why I NEVER recommend specific cables to friends. My approach has been to learn first-hand what each mfr's "house sound" is in your system and then stick with the brand that best matches the sonic personality you need.  Analysis Plus and Audioquest (strange bedfellow, I know) seem to work best for me -- at least on segments of my system that don't include Class D amplification!