Big speakers, are they really the best way to get great sound?

@mahgister wrote:

It is possible to enjoy an immersive inclusive soundstage engulfing the listener with swmall speakers ..

I know it because i enjoy it ...

@mihorn wrote:

I agree with him saying “Every speaker above 50 Hertz is a small speaker” in below video. It doesn’t have to be large speakers for a big room. My system consists 5.24” woofer 2way speakers with 8” powered sub. I am very happy.

An individual enjoying/being happy about the sound from a small speaker system is all well and important to the one feeling this way about it, but "enjoyment" here is no measure in itself when it comes to assessing the true capabilities against a larger, more physically all-out speakers system and the traits that follow here. And no, no acoustics fiddling or trickery will change that.

Different ways to skin your cat, as they say, and priorities I can deal with, but diminishing the importance of physics of speakers (i.e.: size and efficiency) and effectively saying "a small, inefficient speaker package compensated perhaps with more power will do the same (or "enough") as the larger, more efficient combo" is being delusional. Sorry, but that’s the way it is. In vital, related parameters small, low efficiency speakers won’t do the same, not by a mile or even in a relatively small listening space, and anybody who’s intricately familiar with a well implemented, large displacement and true full-range speaker system that’s wholly effortless in its entire frequency range at any desirable SPL - and it needn’t be placed in a large environment to properly come together as such (in fact I favor a moderately sized locale) - will know full well it’s an experience unique to this segment of speakers. If one can do without this kind of experience and feels no need to pursue it, perfectly fine, but what’s enough and enjoyable to some (with small speakers) only tells you about their priorities, perceptions and particular context.

Refusing to acknowledge the importance, and to begin with the very existence of parameters like uninhibited dynamics, scaling, ease, true full-range abilities, physicality of presentation and this wash of immersion one simply cannot attain from a smaller speaker package, is not seeing things for what they are and can be. I’m not trying to impose anything onto others, and each to their own and all that jazz, but let’s not fool ourselves.

phusis

"enjoyment" here is no measure in itself when it comes to assessing the true capabilities against a larger, more physically all-out speakers system and the traits that follow here. And no, no acoustics fiddling or trickery will change that.

I see your system and I understand why you believe that. Then I want to hear the truth. Do you have a live recording of your system online? Alex/Wavetouch

You put something in my mouth i never said then you refute it with common place evidence facts for all ..

😁

An honest discussion dont go this way ...Sorry...

I said that it is possible to enjoy some level of "immersiveness" which is a SPECIFIC OBJECTIVE acoustic concept with any well embedded speakers, small or big ... I presume you know that any acoustician can prepare a room big or small to be optimal for giving a relative experience of "immersiveness" because there is parameter we can work with to do that with any room and with any speakers , big or small .. ... ...I presumed that some reader of my post would know that for sure ... 😊.. I know i presumed too much...

I never said that small speakers work as well for that "immersiveness" acoustic experience than bigger better designed speakers in better and bigger room ...

Do you catch what i spoke about ?

I spoke about an OBJECTIVE acoustic concept WHICH WE CAN AND MUST CONTROL IN ALL SPEAKERS CASE as timbre is one : immersiveness ... We can even enjoy some level of immersiveness with headphones...Do you know that ?

Try to understand when reading a post what is the matter in discussion ...

Only an idiot can say that low cost small speakers will perform as well as bigger speakers in a big adapted room ... And i am not an idiot as you suggested unvolontarily misreading me ...

But read acoustics and you will learn how to create immersiveness or a better timbre experience or any other acoustic factors with any speakers and even with headphones so hard it could be .,..But no acoustician think doing so that all speakers are equals ... I am not an acoustician but i learned by experimenting basic concepts ..

Being happy with small speakers and knowing how to do so dont implicate that i suggested that bigger speakers will not improve the experience ...But the reverse is true , owning bigger speakers dont means that no small speakers can be satisfying giving immersiveness ... Immersiveness is not a SUBJECTIVE impression only it is an OBJECTIVE concept and experience which we can learn to control in any room and with any speakers  to some minimal satisfying acoustical level  we can even measure now ....

I think that i was clear ...Thanks for your attention and thanks for the occasion you gave me to be clearer ...

An individual enjoying/being happy about the sound from a small speaker system is all well and important to the one feeling this way about it, but "enjoyment" here is no measure in itself when it comes to assessing the true capabilities against a larger, more physically all-out speakers system and the traits that follow here. And no, no acoustics fiddling or trickery will change that.

I think size alone has little to do with a speaker's capability. Implementation and design are the key here. I would much rather have a small speaker that is designed to work well in typical listening space than a large speaker that is thrown together haphazardly. This applies to the room as well. IME, the best sounding rooms are the one that have speakers in them that are appropriate for not only the size of the space, but also the acoustics of the space. 

In my OP, the speakers were large, the room was quite large and unfortunately the sound field was over ripe! Why, because these speakers were being played in a space that worked ok for them, but not great! A smaller model of the same line would have been more appropriate for this space, and would have probably sounded better; albeit not as impressive looking! 

IMO, large speakers many times equates to large problems, but I guess if all else is equal, the large can out do small....BUT it better be in a room that has been designed for what the larger speaker brings, warts and all. 

@mihorn wrote:

I see your system and I understand why you believe that. Then I want to hear the truth. Do you have a live recording of your system online? Alex/Wavetouch

I don't, and if you want the "truth" it would hardly be the proper approach.  

@mahgister --

Much of this, it appears, comes down to semantics and which meaning to ascribe to terms. It seems to you "immersion" is linked to acoustics predominantly, while to me it isn't (predominantly). When you spoke, or rather wrote about "an immersive inclusive soundstage engulfing the listener with swmall speakers," I found it "stole" into the realm of mainly horn-loaded and to some degree panel speakers of considerable physical size, speakers that to my ears have been the only real way to experience a large radiation bubble of said "wash" of immersive, and indeed visceral quality. Having posted my previous reply and after re-reading it a bit later (while then being unable to make further edits) I saw what could be interpreted into what your reply then pointed to (and apologies for any perceived insinuations here, which weren't my intention), but thought "Oh, well - I'll deal with that when the opportunity presents itself," and here we are. 

I'm aware of immersiveness as it relates to headphones, but while a much more controllable means of listening to music I've never bought into their presentation, in some respects at least, as anything particularly natural and convincing to my ears. An asymmetrically placed and mono-coupled DBA sub setup kinda gives me the same-ish "bass in the head"-experience that, while it may be relatively flat in FR, just doesn't sound natural to me. Though I'd no doubt take such a bass presentation compared to any headphone ditto for sure.

@daveyf wrote:

IMO, large speakers many times equates to large problems, but I guess if all else is equal, the large can out do small....BUT it better be in a room that has been designed for what the larger speaker brings, warts and all. 

Speaking for myself and my context of large speakers with large format horns, overall prodigious air radiation area, separate subs and active configuration that translates into limited (i.e.: fairly narrow), controlled dispersion and elaborate means of tweaking on the filter/DSP side of things (incl. delay), acoustics and room size isn't as much of a factor here. Conversely I could easily imagine a pair of large, direct radiating, full-range, multi-way, lower efficiency and load-heavy passively configured speakers to be a potential nightmare setting up, not only acoustically but as well with regard to amp pairing. And that's just the problem with this segment of passively configured, large speakers, as you point to yourself; as a fixed, all-in-one package you're much more dependent on the listening room being designed around them than actually being able to integrate them into an existing, variable environment. As such size isn't the real factor here as it is dispersion characteristics and the means of integration at one's disposal.