So what was the end result? Did you buy the Dave? What about the m scaler?
Endgame Vocal+ DAC Help: Terminator Plus 12th vs. Chord DAVE vs. Holo May vs. Weiss502.
tl;dr: Read title. I like vocals with spacing, depth and atmosphere. VOCALS. I have a small, shitty space - one side of an closed porch; very near-feild computer-setup. Consider myself a whore for detail. Was surprised to find detail-praised DACs to be harsh (e.g., RME ADI). Want thick, dark/rich, vocal forward, no loss in detail. Hate thin, harsh, and smeared/muddy sound. Julien Baker. Hold my hand and mentor me.
The atmospheric, depth of field, concentration stuff like this: https://youtu.be/rNEZlRgebwQ is something I love, but, without lyrics, I lack emotional engagement.
Setup (shitty near-field, no choice):
Audio Streaming Services or Youtube to
BeQuiet! PC Build - USB out to
Topping D90 MQA (to be replaced)
to Better Cables XLR
to Benchmark HPA4
to Classe' SIGMA AMP 2
to Wilson Audio Duette 2's
Headphones: Hifiman Arya
---
Ok, I always feel guilty asking for help; still, finding any advice otherwise is difficult.
I'm looking to get an endgame DAC; I have the budget for about $20k worth of gear, if it's blow-me-away sort of stuff. I've read and watched virtually every review (about 20 or so reads; about 20 or so youtube reviews, each). I can find on these (and other) DACs; so, I feel somewhat equipped with the general perceptions of each.
Still, I'm not sure how these will best suit my wants for a DAC.
Best I can tell, each of these DACs have their own camps of support, and each comes with some distinct, common-to-review, characteristics:
Chord DAVE: Bright, Atmospheric, Big, Depth, Mega Detail, Harsh on Femal Vocals at times, but other than that, I've read nothing but cum-stained reviews for this ugly thing.
Denafrips T+12: Smooth, Medium Dark, Juicy, Rich, Big, Atmospheric, Not as Vocal Forward, Changes the sound but in a good way*, Some say it backs off the lead vocals when other vocals are present.
Holo May: Smooth, 'Correct', Neutral, Big, Vocal more forwardish
Weiss502: Rich, Juicy, Studio Master Tape, Less Color
*I do not care if the DAC changes the music - most the artists I love seem to be TERRIBLE in the mixing/mastering dept. Like TERRIBLE. Why every artist doesn't listen to their masters on every level of dac-to-speaker combo with particular emphasis on the sort of setups/playback their target demo has absolutely boggles the mind.
I almost exclusively listen to slower, guitar/piano-based, female-vocal heavy music (e.g., Julien Baker - a lot of Julien Baker). So, I'm looking to get a DAC best suited for that sort of music.
Essentially, making this (I know, youtube, but I love this recording) sound as good as possible is what I'm after: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlVp9W6LvTQ
That skinny vocal mic in the Tiny Desk concerts has a level of detail I love.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZdnq5tN5vI
I'd like to preserve that sort of detail, but the vocals could be a touch warmer/fuller/juicier.
---
Here's a bit of background experience and taste-to-product preferences with which I am aware:
I have auditioned the iFiDSD Pro, have owned the Matrix X-Sabre I, the RME ADI-II, and currently use the Topping D90 mQa. Of the 3 (but only after I gave the strange idea of burn-in a try), the Matrix was my favorite - I think because of the spaciousness of the sound.
I do not have experience with FPGA or R2R dacs.
I consider(ed?) myself a detail whore ever since hearing the Elton John (self-titled) album in SACD - some 20ish years ago - the vocal isolated parts were really, really pleasingly detailed. This was played over a Marantz sr7007, the same year's Marantz SACD multi player, and with a Rotal 1075 AMP feeding BW 600 series floorstanders with bi-wired silver audio cable.
However, when listening to the RME ADI on my youtube favs, I found the whole thing absurdly detailed - but, fatiguing and harsh at times. I realize some of this is source - youtube. I keep referencing the RME ADI because, compared to the others, it was a detail winner, but, to my ears, was harsh and a tiny bit thin.
So, perhaps I am not the detail fiend I thought I was - I'm actually not sure.
I can say that I love the sound of the microphone used in the PASTE Mag concerts - that crispness that seems to pick up significant detail gives me the right emotional connection. Again, making this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlVp9W6LvTQ - sound as good as I can is what I'm after.
End of the day, I think I am looking for the most engaging dac for vocals - I am definitely a vocals whore, and a sucker for good, sad lyrics. I HATE anything muddy, congested, or blurred, and, after a lot of paying attention, I seem to be sensitive to harshness and listening fatigue. I realize detail and harshness/fatigue are often at odds. I have extended my budget to the absurd to tackle this.
At any rate, after literal years of research, this is where I am.
Can you help?
~Nick
- ...
- 32 posts total
OP I purchased this as my endgame DAC. After very intensive search for an endgame DAC which I can afford, I believe it’s a sonic bargain competing with the very best. However, it’s rather pricy compared to the rest of your audio chain. You might be better served by upgrading your pre-amp with something like a Hegel H360/H390/H590/H600 integrated with the optional DAC card. |
Welp, for those interested, I went in a rather totally different direction. Originally, I bit the bullet and went the Denafrips Terminator II+ 12th. Honestly, I wasn't impressed. It sounded glassy, and the pushed back vocals just was a bit too much. I tried everything - and I mean EVERYTHING. All the settings, combinations of settings, different cables, different preamp, Denafrips top preamp, RCA, XLR, I2s - all of it. I tried the new firmware (worse). I tried USB. I tried about 4 different sorts of cables for each input and output. I tried a solid state amp. I tried a tube amp. I couldn't figure it out. I tried different power sources. I tried a power conditioner. I tried fucking rewiring the electrical to a dedicated outlet (which mattered more than the rest, and was considerably cheaper than most everything). I tried streaming from my computer, streaming from a Wiim, steaming with an iFi, streaming from a Sonos, streaming from an Aurender, streaming with downloaded FLAC, with CD, with WAV, with Audirvana on/off, Tidal, Qobuz, and Spotify. Nothing. I added that top-end schiit equalizer. Garbage. I was totally at a loss. Devastated, I went back to my Topping D90MQA - which was fine, but just fine - better than the Terminator to my ears, but just fine. My partner took me to D.C. as a surprise, and, while she knows NOTHING about audio, chose a high-end audio store just outside of D.C., and, I remember getting out of the car with the biggest smile saying, "You're gonna make me spend some money, aren't you?!" And, oh boy, money I did spend. I wound up with a Synthesis A40 Virtus tube amp + DAC. About $8k. I listened to everything at the shop. . . for 2 damned days, and about 10 total hours. Frankly, was BLOWN AWAY by Synthesis. The dealer was pairing the amp + DAC I bought with a pair of tiny, TINY little bookshelf speakers (British, but I can't for the life of me recall the name, at the moment - ProAc, I think. They were super tiny). Something that was like 9" high and like 5" across. I mean tiny. And the (rather large) room was FILLED with sound I'd not heard in 20 years. Thick, juicy, vocal forward, room filling, and no loss in detail. Traded my Denafrips. Traded my Wilsenton. Traded my Classe' solid state. Got a Sonos (which is what the dealer used) and the Synthesis A40 Virtus, and couldn't be happier. It's been 5 or 6 months, and I'm happy enough that I've not even considered anything else. I can finally, finally, FINALLY listen for as long as I want without an ounce of fatigue, and even bad recordings sound better than they should. And the good stuff (stuff like Billie Eilish that, even though I don't normally care for that sortof music but it's just recorded so damned well) sounds absolutely tear-jerking. I know, one wouldn't think an integrated chip DAC (especially in a tube amp) would even be a good idea let alone sound good, but I can't find anything that sounds better except a bigger Synthesis Amp. It's wild, but, finally, I'm happy. The setup is now super simple: Sonos/Qobus Cardas Clear SPIDF Synthesis A40 Virtus Wilson Duette II done. Strange, I know. It still doesn't make sense to me, either. Some will say it's the Cardas Clear (as it was $750), but I can tell you, using a basic $150 USB coming from my computer sounds basically the same. Anyway, let the arguments and nay-saying ensue. :) |
@nlynchard - Those ProAc speakers were likely a version of their Tablette. |
- 32 posts total