2. misc-audio
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Has buying and/or selling audio gear changed?

Hi Everyone, I've been a longtime observer on Audiogon but this is my first post.  I recently ran into a situation that was new to me as I've recently sold some of my gear and I'm in the process of replacing it.  I've used the normal websites (Audiogon, US Audiomart, TMR, etc) and those transactions have been smooth without any issues.  I normally use PP Goods and Services as well as insurance with shipping.  However, I recently was on a website of a well-known individual in the industry who has a piece of equipment that was reasonable priced.  No, it wasn't a "too good to be true" price but was in the ballpark of what one would expect.  As we were ready to finalize the sale, he informed me that he only does PayPal F&F and he won't insure the product for shipping stating this is now the industry standard and it was non-negotiable.  Is this the new standard and all my other recent transactions were non-typical because I used PP Goods & Services and made sure the shipping had insurance to try and provide some protection?  I don't live close enough to buy the gear in person and I've bought and sold across the US and never had a problem but always used Goods and Services for peace of mind for the unexpected issue or problem.  For the record, I'm only interested in conversation that is related to what the industry standard is, not the individual involved here.  Let me know your thoughts.      

128x128listenup23
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listenup23's avatar
listenup23 OP
3 posts
 

Another source: IRS Delays Tax Rule for Online Sellers—Again - WSJ 

Based on the responses to my post, it appears sellers have 2 concerns with G&S:

  1. There is a perceived bias towards finding in the buyers favor if a complaint is filed against the seller using PP G&S.
  2. The seller is concerned with potential IRS compliance and possible taxes on gains realized from the sale of audio equipment or proving there were no gains.   

That helps me understand why the seller is reluctant to use G&S.   I appreciate the feedback. 

Carlsbad2, you mentioned that you have done a couple transactions using F&F worth over $17K and you stated that it is possible to avoid being the victim.  Do you mind sharing the steps you took that allowed you to be successful in not being the victim?  Obviously, calling and talking to seller is a step as well as email communication but personally, I'm lacking the same confidence that those steps will help much if the seller wants to exploit the situation when a buyer uses F&F and has no foundation from which to stand on if the seller fails to uphold their end of the bargain in the transaction.  As I stated, I don't conduct a lot of buying and selling so I'm trying to learn from others who have more experience in this area.  I appreciate the feedback and discussion.   

carlsbad2's avatar
carlsbad2
1,602 posts
 

@invalid I disagree.  In  the past, if you sold a personal item, not for a gain, you didn't report it.  Now, since there is a 1099, you have to deal with it.

geof3
1,129 posts
 

This entire discussion goes back to the “buy the seller” concept. Do some due diligence, ask questions, look at feedback. F&F has become more a standard now as PayPal has implemented several new “security” policies that hold money, cause problems with transaction timing etc. Frankly, it is making PayPal less and less attractive to use as a whole. I use F&F now as a seller, I have deep feedback, all positive. If a potential buyer is not ok with that, that’s fine. I generally buy with F&F as well, unless I want to finance the purchase in some way. Then I usually negotiate with the seller at some level. Regarding insurance, as mentioned that’s on the seller. If the item gets lost or is DOA due to shipping damage, that’s on the seller. Their loss if they didn’t buy insurance. Postal insurance is a money grab, it rarely pays out if there is a problem that is shipping damage related. EBay’s systems are an exception. They do a pretty good job, oddly enough.

elliottbnewcombjr
5,349 posts
 

1st Post, alrighty then,

You have clues not to buy from that seller. I simply do not like giving money to someone I don’t trust or like. IF unique, well, how to get it?

I suggest you offer to pay the extra (3%?) for the PayPal Goods and Services fee.

AND, If seller buys insurance on your behalf (again, you pay), be aware, the insurance is in seller’s name, you have to take damaged item to agent’s local office, they have to agree damaged, then seller has to make the claim, be successful, then give you the refund.

 

..........................

USP Pack and Ship

One option for anything, (and if you buy from someone like this) is to use UPS Pack and Ship. I’ve used it a few times successfully. You do not pay seller any shipping cost.

Using seller’s zip code, find UPS Pack and Ship store nearest him (all locations are not pack and ship). You get size and weight from the seller (or online search). You call UPS, get estimate for them to receive unboxed item(s), box, ship, they are responsible for any damage.

Next: seller simply drops unboxed item(s) at the designated UPS Pack and Ship near them , with your name on it. You pay UPS directly, all is in your name. Seller walks away. Note: you want many prior photos showing condition of item(s).

UPS gives you final cost, a bit less or a bit more than the estimate based on their own weight/size measurements.

NOTE: for anything ’local pick up only’, this can be a way to get something, seller just drops it off for you. I’ve done that also, except one stubborn coot in Canada. (UPS Canada has Pack and Ship to USA)

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