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why still buy a cd player?

I'm relatively new to the audiophile world, and I'm trying to understand why anone who has a sonos system (or alike) and has stored his files on a server in a lossless format would still want to buy a CD player for best audiophile music quality.

here's my thinking:

if a lossless rip format is used, the data stored after ripping on a digital hard-disk is as good as cd quality - by definition-,...

with sonos i can get that data anywhere in the house without errors

so the only thing that matters is the conversion from digital to analog and the follow-up amplification.

Now,

i can go from sonos to a pre-amp using a digital port, then the pre-amp determines the DAC quality.

or I go from sonos to an amp after using the DAC in the sonos (and use the analog connection to the amp)

If I were to have a CDP connected digitally to a pre-amp, the pre-amp DAC would determine the quality of the sound. In that case I might as well skip the CDP and fall back on my sonos and connect it digitally to my pre-amp.

So the only benefit from a CDP player would come from using the DAC and thus the analog out of the CDP. Is my logic correct?

If this is correct, than I would only have better sound quality with a CDP if the DAC of the CD player exceeds the quality of the DAC of my sonos and of my pre-amp. Is my logic correct?

If it is, and since I can imagine that most $500k CD would have better DAC than a sonos, the real comparison is to figure out of the DAC of my pre-amp is better than the DAC of my CDP. If it does, than no need for a cdp, just use sonos. If it doesn't then a cdp would still provide better quality. Is that correct?

So, the decision to by a
I can imagine that a good cdp would exceed the
mizuno
ckorody
643 posts
 
My personal experience and bias suggests that it is not easy to achieve excellent sound with a CDP source especially on a budget... too many issues with the design and manufacture of the product, and especially SPDIF implementation.

But lets set that aside for the moment. I would argue that the hard drived based route has a lot of other advantages. I sum this up in the concept of "rip once, use many". Your digital library not only offers random access and does away with yards of ugly jewel cases; it is also portable. Want to use a USB DAC in one room, no problem. Want to download to an iPod, iPhone, AppleTV or iAnything - no problem.

Plus there is a whole host of innovative services emerging, internet radio etc - none of which require a CDP.

Because it is consumer, mass market technology ease of use gets easier daily.

The only big exception that I can see at this point in time is if you are interested in very high resolution formats - DVD-A, SACD, 384 etc.
mapman's avatar
mapman
22,182 posts
 
Assuming all the bits are being read, stored, and delivered downstream correctly, its all in the DAC.

You need a decent, properly functioning CD read drive to get this, but these are not inherently expensive or uncommon these days IMHO.

The uncertainty comes into play knowing whether this is what you have or not...it can be hard to know for sure.

For a computer based server, buy more recent name brand gear with good overall reliability reports and you should be in very good shape. Then focus on the DAC to get the sound you like.
mizuno OP
59 posts
 
Wow. very interesting points of view. I hear consensus that a good quality DAC is critical, and mixed views on the transport.

Personally, I would assume that good error correction would indeed keep the stream bit-perfect unless the disk/ transport exhibited a large amount of errors beyond the Reed-Solomon threshold to do its correction job appropriately.

In that case, this leads me to the next question, i.e., how to best compare DACs?

One rarely see comparisons between CDPs and Pre-amps/ DACs. One compares within family not across. So how would I know if the the DAC of the CA 840C is better than the DAC of the integrated C372 NAD amp?

Similarly, am i better off buying a Rotel CDP and good amp, . or a cheap CDP or sonos for digital source and Rotel pre-amp and a good amp?

What technical informnation do I need to check to compare?

thx!

mizuno
shadorne's avatar
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shadorne
7,477 posts
 
In that case, this leads me to the next question, i.e., how to best compare DACs?

Firstly features - do you need remote volume control - do you need USB input - do you want XLR - do you want a high quality finish and faceplate?

Since there are many good ones - I'd recommend to audition a few. You can start by reading reviews and see which DAC's have the most persuasive specs, preferrably with excellent jitter rejection/immunity and a highish number of positive reviews from respected reviewers. Narrow it down to a few (all will be good) and begin listening (several offer return policies) Frankly, I don't think you will find night and day differences - so your personal tastes will be the deciding factor.

Jitter immunity is probably the single most important technical factor in a DAC (given that othe rspecs will generally be excellent) ...it is well known that all audio interfaces carry at least some jitter....how much of this is audible is debatable.
ckorody
643 posts
 
Mizuno - you are getting some excellent advice.

I want to make sure that you are clear that using a hard drive as a transport instead of a CDP is somewhat of a game changer in terms of what it requires of a DAC.

Eliminating the problems associated with a 35-40 year old electro-optical-mechanical spec is not a trivial thing. When you are ripping to disc the drive is simply reading bits - something computers do everyday, all day long generally correctly.

When you are playing back from a hard drive once again all you are reading is bits. So many of the artifacts that are associated with real time playback - especially jitter - largely disappear.

While I am not an engineer, I am convinced that most of the money in top of the line CDPs and DACs has historically gone to dealing with problems associated with real time and also with SPDIF implementation.

While it is not perfect, this is a giant step forward.
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