Garrard 301 motor and rumble

@fsonicsmith 

No, you just have to replace a noisy idler wheel every couple of months or so. 

The actually pump Sota uses is child's play to replace and readily available. If you can come up with a better way to perfectly flatten a record and mate it to a mat of the same mechanical impedance color me surprised. 

It appears you are an antique collector and not interested in the highest levels of performance. I have an old Nagra Tape Machine on display, beautiful thing. I never use it.  

One key to really good LP playback is a robust drive in the turntable. That is why the Garrard has a following, along with the Lenco, Empire and Technics.

No matter how speed stable with no LP, a wimpy drive will have speed variation when you set the needle down and could have more when there is heavy modulation since the drag on the arm is increased.

When there is a slight speed variation, IME you hear it as a slight shimmer in the soundstage. I suspect this is because the variation is so slight that you dont hear it as pitch, rather you hear the tonearm tracking force on the groove walls change as the arm oscillates slightly left to right as the skating force changes with the speed.

If this Garrard were my machine, I’d grease the main platter bearing, make sure the motor has a good lubricant (automatic transmission fluid works well) and finally has a good idler, whose bearing also has a touch of light grease.

You can get idlers rebuilt by Russell Industries on the east coast. They do an excellent job. Most of the rumble you get is from the idler, so the more precision you can get out of it the lower the rumble. Its also worth it to make sure the inside of the platter where the idler bears against it is clean, since any dirt/buildup there can add to rumble too.

If the idler has a sloppy fit on its axle, all bets are off. But IME that’s pretty rare.

@atmasphere 

Speed instability is certainly a problem. Most of it is caused by record warping and eccentric spindle holes. The very same irregularities that cause rumble also cause speed irregularity.  The old idler wheel turntables are less speed stable than any high end belt drive table primarily because of the older motors. You could substitute a modern electronically controlled motor so you can have more accurate rumble. Even if you could create an idler drive that were as quiet as a belt drive it would not last long as components wear. 

The point is, unless you are an antique collector do not buy an old idler wheel drive table. There are many excellent modern turntables, either belt or direct drive that are quieter, more speed stable and better isolated. This is not an opinion. It is a matter of fact.  

@mijostyn 

I previously thought that you were knowledgeable and just needlessly argumentative. Now I see it is much worse-you are entirely ignorant. 

No, you just have to replace a noisy idler wheel every couple of months or so. 

Garrard and Thorens experts have stated repeatedly in their writings that it is not uncommon to find thirty year old idler wheels that remain perfectly true. 

You could substitute a modern electronically controlled motor so you can have more accurate rumble.

Are you going to blame this on your dyslexia again or will you just admit that you are awful (and dumb)  with your native language? 

 

There are many excellent modern turntables, either belt or direct drive that are quieter, more speed stable and better isolated. This is not an opinion. It is a matter of fact.  

Not opinion? Hooboy! Who let the inmate out of the cuckoo's nest?

You could substitute a modern electronically controlled motor 

You clearly are incapable of comprehending Ralph's point and it again shows that you know nothing about turntables. I am shocked. Speed control for a relatively weak motor will do nothing to address the micro-level (instantaneous) speed changes that Ralph is talking about. 

@mijostyn Your Sota is a fine turntable. It is nowhere close to being perfect and is no more state of the art (pun) than a top level modified and updated TD124 or 301.

Leave me out of the equation-read the S'Phile review of the newly released version of the 301and then tell all of us that it is not a matter of opinion, it is a fact that the reviewer is wrong. Tell all of us that it is not a matter of opinion, it is a fact that Art Dudley was wrong. 

Last, I will bet dollars to donuts that my Reed 3P arms easily outperform whatever arm you have installed on your Sota.

@fsonicsmith 

Thank you for the compliment.

This is not a competition. You are obviously an antique collector, I am not. The OP's case is typical. 

As for arms, the best Reed offset, pivoted arm is the 2G. The 2P's bearing arrangement is IMHO inferior. The arm I use on the Cosmos is a Schroder CB and the cartridges are the MSL Signature Platinum, The Ortofon MC Diamond and the Lyre Atlas Lambda SL. 

As for whether or not the Cosmos is equaled in performance by any old turntable? The Cosmos is fully suspended, Has a 1" thick aluminum chassis, has a magnetic thrust bearing and the Eclipse drive, one of the best in the industry. The others here can make up their own minds as to whether and old idler drive table mounted on a chunk of wood, stone or whatever is likely to come close in performance. They might look sharp, but that is about it. 

The makers of the finest turntables made today shun idler drive, I wonder why. It was necessary back in the old days to change speeds because we did not have electronically controlled motors yet and nobody had subwoofers. Then the little AR XA came along and blew them all away from a performance perspective. I had a TD124II at the time and a friend's AR was much quieter. Idler drives disappeared from the market and all the radio stations dumped their old tables for the hot direct drives. You can't slip cue most belt drive tables. All those old tables were available for pennies on the dollar and the myth begins. All this is not my opinion. It is historical fact. Today there are much better ways of changing speed than a stepped capstan and a spring loaded rubber wheel.