Thiel Owners

It’s super useful to know that unsound demands peaks of around 105 dB (think table saw volume). If you want to play many Thiel models that loudly, yes, you do need a moonrocket amp. You can also get there by using something like JBLs rather than Thiel.

My Ayre AX-5 Twenty, paired with my particular digital source, will begin to clip at an indicated 40 on the volume with typical digital files. My speakers are CS2.4, heavily modified under the guidance of Tom Thiel. I don’t have a good SPL meter but estimate the volume at clipping would be 95-97 dB. I mostly listen at an indicated 20-24, maybe low 30s if I have the house to myself and want to play loudly (peaks probably around 90).

If you have several days to read through this thread you will see many reports of happy Thiel owners using all kinds of amps that unsound would consider unfit. Off the top of my head, a couple of CS2.4 owners report great results with ARC tube amps. Wes Phillips glowing review of the CS2.4 included use with multiple amps, some of them quite low-powered and probably none of them meeting unsound’s criteria. When I first heard a pair of CS2.4 they were driven by an Ayre AX-7 (60 W into 8 Ohms). Sounded excellent to me. And I drove a pair of CS1.6 with an Ayre AX-7 for many years, never detected clipping.

The need for a super high-powered amp will depend on many factors including personal listening preference and room size. But the measurements should only be a guide. You will never, ever know what a combo sounds like until you actually listen to it.

Here are the measurements for the AX-5 Twenty. Looking at these, I would not be afraid to mate an AX-5 even to a pair of CS-5s. Obviously, that amp will not get anywhere near 105 dB but I suspect it would sound excellent within its volume limitations.

https://www.hifinews.com/content/ayre-ax-5-twenty-integrated-amplifier-lab-report

Beetlemania is not incorrect. How ever 105 dB peaks (and quite a bit louder as well) are not all that uncommon during live performances (and I think that’s what we’re trying to replicate here). MS tone burst measurements at low impedances might suggest adequacy for speakers that briefly dip into such impedances, but the speakers under consideration here spend the vast majority of their time below 4 Ohms. I think RMS measurements are a better consideration for the applications at hand. The amplifiers I usually suggest are the same or have the same parameters as Jim Thiel would use (including Jim’s minimum recommendations).

beetlemania

Good to see you again. I hope that you are well and had a prosperous 2023.

While I cannot attest to stock AYRE components, I can and will attest to the Twenty Series being up to the task of driving Thiel loudspeakers. This fact has been confirmed by many Audiophiles. Is AYRE a Krell or Levinson? No. Can this brand hold its own? Yes. 

Equally impressive that you matched an AYRE AX-7 with CS 1.6 speakers. Stepping up to an Ax-5 (20) with CS 2.4 is a sweet upgrade all-around.

Reading back from the beginning, my 1st CS 2.4 demo featured a Creek integrated in the 60-80w neighborhood. That Amp rocked, without the slightest hint of clipping.! 

Older Krell and Mark Levinson (particularly the 383 integrated) are sonic matches indeed. Those amps can provide >100 dB peaks for Classical music buffs. Great discussion.

Season's Greetings and Happy Listening!

unsound

No doubt that a pair of 3.5 or 3.6 speakers could benefit from a Krell, Levinson, Pass Labs or Threshold amp.  Much will depend on musical tastes and room parameters/volume levels.

Season's Greetings & Happy Listening!

@jafant, Actually the CS 3.5’s even with the up to 12 dB draw from the eq, thanks to its 4 Ohm nominal / 4 Ohm minimum load (actual 5 Ohm measured) in smaller rooms with less volume demands can get by with as little as 100 Watts into 4 Ohms. That’s a standard 50 Watt rated amp truly capable of doubling down to the load at hand.  Though I generally suggest as a rule of thumb / general guideline that most users double a speaker manufacturer’s minimum suggested power. It’s the lower impedance’s that reduce the efficiency of some of the other Thiels. 400 Watts into 2 Ohms is like 100 Watts into 8 Ohms. I don’t think many would think 100 Watts is excessive.