Salk HT3, SF Cremona M, Magnepan 3.7 or ML Ethos?

@Wardl Yes, I agree the HT3's are surely better than the setup I heard but probably the 1038BE's are nonetheless ahead, that is my feeling. How big (small) is your room that the 1.7's won't work?

@Johnnyb53 I'm still looking for 5K used which is typically 10k new, so it doesn't hurt to hear what I like so when the right used deal comes along I can jump on it. I would not be surprised if my budget increases a bit though, the Focals are tempting but I can't do 10k. However with the new line out they have already dropped in price (I believe they used to be >10k?) and maybe they will come down more as its not much of a gap between the 1038BE's and the Sopra's (it's a bit odd how they've positioned the Sopra's...).

I don't think the Maggie dealer was compromising the setup, but I suppose I can't be sure. However, I can say the fellow was a huge Maggie fan, has had them in his system at home for 20+ years and swears they are the best thing since sliced bread. The 3.7i's were being driven by Classe mono blocks and a Classe dac/pre. I've never heard Classe products before, but I was not under the impression that they are bad. IMO the room was too small for the 3.7i's but I've read other positive reviews of them where the room size was similar. So it could have been the room size or it could have been positioning of the panels themselves. I will go back and take another listen.

Do you both not see the sound being "blocked" by the panels and the sound stage being confined entirely between the panels? This is what annoyed me the most about both the 3.7i's and 1.7's when I heard them the first time.

Johhny, what made you melt when you heard the Cremona M's? I was hoping to like the Olympica III's with the idea that the Cremona M's may be a similar speaker that I could afford, but I was really disappointed. I liked the Olympica I (monitors) but I don't like the way they've implemented the bass in the floor stander. Perhaps it is also the type of music I listen to, I am not very much into classical/band/orchestra. I do love piano (eg. Rachmaninoff) and sax, but otherwise I typically listen to electronica of some variety, with the odd pop and alt/rock thrown in. They are, of course, drop dead gorgeous to look at with impeccable build quality, exactly what one expects of quality made-in-Italy products.

Wardl, if you're in the midwest you should bring your 1.7's out to my place for a jam session.. I'll buy you many beers :) ... and who knows what else ;)

I also heard the GoldenEar Triton 1's today, not as long or extensive an audition as the dealer didn't have a USB hookup or an MP3 library (CD only, really?). But I did hear them for a good 20 minutes. They strike me as really nice mid-fi. They didn't have the air of the other speakers I've heard, and feel they are rolled off in the highs, but I didn't know the songs being played very well. The room was, again, far from ideal -- way too narrow (what are these dealers thinking?) They also didn't completely disappear and they definitely didn't seem as detailed as the other speakers I've heard. But they do everything to a reasonably good level and of course have no qualms producing bass and are as dynamic as need be. They were not as forward as the 1038BE's nor as laid back as the B&W's, but closer the latter. The tonality was good but not at the level of the 1038BE's or HT3's. I am not sure what they were being driven by, the electronics were in a rack and hard to see, but looked to be Parasound.

Johhnyb53, what were your thoughts when you heard them?

Well, it seems that the demo room is getting in the way one way or another. I mentioned the Triton 1's because they are one of the few speakers that 1) fit your budget and 2) have the frequency extension, dispersion pattern, and bass power to energize a room the size of your listening area.

One of the problems auditioning GoldenEars is that because they're less money and distributed along the lines of Polk and DefTech, they often get paired with mid-fi receivers instead of high end separates that they deserve. Because the Triton 1's have a self-powered bass section, they can get by with a lower powered main amp, but it needs to be a good one. Maybe your demo was powered by Parasound, but I guess we don't know for sure.

Also, on a short listen, the Tritons (or any of the GoldenEars) can sound "polite" because of the folded ribbon tweeter. More extended listening will reveal that all the treble, overtones, and air are there, but minus the overshoot, ringing, and harshness that often accompanies pistonic tweeters. The Motion Transformer tweeter has several square inches of radiating area, so it requires very little movement to make lots of sound. I think we're so used to hearing treble harshness that truly smooth tweeters sound sort of dull until you sort through the sound. Just MHO and may not apply to your audition.

The Cremona Ms rang my bell Iistening to some Diana Krall backed by Christian McBride on bass and Russell Malone on guitar. It gave me everything--clear in-room midrange, articulate and linear bass on McBride's bass lines, and seductive hall ambience. The biggest surprise, however, is that it was being powered by a $999 Marantz integrated amp, the PM8004, since superseded by the PM8005 at $1199. That 80 wpc amp was fast, clean, organic, and maintained an iron grip on the bass.

From what I've heard, the Cremona M is strong down to 40Hz, which covers most music, but drops off from there, and some like to add a sub to cover that last octave. with the Krall trio, they didn't need anything. The Cremona Ms also satisfy your desire for soundstage *and* imaging. A very fine speaker. Although they're not panels, they have big outriggers and are deep, so they need a bit of space too.

In my experience, the Maggies' panels don't block the sound, they're *making* the sound, and properly set up they throw a seamless soundstage with lots of 3D imaging. 3D imaging depends in part on everything being in phase, and it helps that all a Magneplanar's sound is emanating from a flat panel made of one material, so all the primary sound hits you at the same time and of a piece. You don't have woofers, mids, and tweets made of different materials, of different depths, and different risetimes trying to make cohesive music. The Maggies have that advantage.

Johnnyb53 (((can sound "polite" because of the folded ribbon tweeter. More extended listening will reveal that all the treble, overtones, and air are there, but minus the overshoot, ringing, and harshness that often accompanies *pistonic* tweeters.)))

Dear Johnnyb53 I am not busting your balls with your wording but just wanted to clear up your mis use of the word.
*Pistonic* is an achievement of a perfect piston movement with drivers or grouping of drivers.
For example with pistonic behavior throughout the audible frequency range the speaker will be just the opposite of what you are referring to above.

Best,
JohnnyR

I've done some searching and apparently "pistonic" is a made-up word in the audio world, and the original use was when multiple coils and magnets are used to drive the diaphragm more evenly, like those rectangular and odd-shaped speaker drivers of the '70s (many by Yamaha).

What I really meant was what we're used to hearing from some metal domed tweeters, which invariably have a resonant frequency spike (just about the range of hearing) and what's called "oil canning" which is also a distortion characteristic of overdriven metal domes.

My main point is that the accordion pleat compression drive of the Heil-type motion transformer, with its larger radiating surface and minimal motion, doesn't exhibit the harshness characteristic of many metal domes, and therefore might sound rolled off when it is actually delivering accurate treble without accompanying mechanical distortions we're used to hearing.