Salk HT3, SF Cremona M, Magnepan 3.7 or ML Ethos?


Help! :) I have been getting by with old Panasonic SB6's which are said to have an electrostatic sound for a piston type speaker design. Obviously they are pretty old monitors, but one thing they do well is (pinpoint) image with good width and moderate depth. But alas, I am finally ready to get some real (or at least modern) speakers.

I have heard the HT3's and liked the sound and look of them. They threw up a huge soundstage, but perhaps at the expense of the "pinpoint" imaging I am used to, and seemed exaggerated (e.g. silhouette of singers too large). However, I am not sure if I heard them in the best setup as they were very far from the rear wall (like 15ft) and in a huge room (maybe 35' square or even bigger). This may also have made the image seem entirely behind the plane of the speakers whereas I think a little closer is nicer (to me).

I have also heard the 3.7's in a dealer showroom, presumably properly setup. I felt like the big panels were "blocking" some of the sound and the soundstage was entirely between the panels, which made it compressed without much space between instruments, etc. Highly resolving and detailed, but lacked "air" (which the HT3s did very well). That room was probably 13'x18' or maybe slightly larger. I was somewhat disappointed given the stellar reviews. In fact, I felt the 1.7's (in a different room) in some respects sounded better.

I have not heard the Cremona M but did hear Olympica Monitors briefly at a different dealer. The room was probably 17' square, the Olympica's were maybe 2 feet off the rear wall. Since I only got 5-10mins with them, I barely got a sense but there was something nice about the SF sound that has me curious to hear a used model I might actually afford, hence the Cremona M.

Finally, I have not heard the Ethos but will hopefully get a chance to hear the Summit X in the next few days.

I am after speed, extension, holographic 3D soundstage with pinpoint placement of sounds/instruments/voices, refinement, low-level detail and resolution. Budget is 5K used. Does anyone have some advice? With the HT3's so far from the wall would that have distorted my impression of their imaging and image size? Are the Cremona M's in the same league as these other speakers or no? I am finding this very difficult.
zynec
Well, it seems that the demo room is getting in the way one way or another. I mentioned the Triton 1's because they are one of the few speakers that 1) fit your budget and 2) have the frequency extension, dispersion pattern, and bass power to energize a room the size of your listening area.

One of the problems auditioning GoldenEars is that because they're less money and distributed along the lines of Polk and DefTech, they often get paired with mid-fi receivers instead of high end separates that they deserve. Because the Triton 1's have a self-powered bass section, they can get by with a lower powered main amp, but it needs to be a good one. Maybe your demo was powered by Parasound, but I guess we don't know for sure.

Also, on a short listen, the Tritons (or any of the GoldenEars) can sound "polite" because of the folded ribbon tweeter. More extended listening will reveal that all the treble, overtones, and air are there, but minus the overshoot, ringing, and harshness that often accompanies pistonic tweeters. The Motion Transformer tweeter has several square inches of radiating area, so it requires very little movement to make lots of sound. I think we're so used to hearing treble harshness that truly smooth tweeters sound sort of dull until you sort through the sound. Just MHO and may not apply to your audition.

The Cremona Ms rang my bell Iistening to some Diana Krall backed by Christian McBride on bass and Russell Malone on guitar. It gave me everything--clear in-room midrange, articulate and linear bass on McBride's bass lines, and seductive hall ambience. The biggest surprise, however, is that it was being powered by a $999 Marantz integrated amp, the PM8004, since superseded by the PM8005 at $1199. That 80 wpc amp was fast, clean, organic, and maintained an iron grip on the bass.

From what I've heard, the Cremona M is strong down to 40Hz, which covers most music, but drops off from there, and some like to add a sub to cover that last octave. with the Krall trio, they didn't need anything. The Cremona Ms also satisfy your desire for soundstage *and* imaging. A very fine speaker. Although they're not panels, they have big outriggers and are deep, so they need a bit of space too.

In my experience, the Maggies' panels don't block the sound, they're *making* the sound, and properly set up they throw a seamless soundstage with lots of 3D imaging. 3D imaging depends in part on everything being in phase, and it helps that all a Magneplanar's sound is emanating from a flat panel made of one material, so all the primary sound hits you at the same time and of a piece. You don't have woofers, mids, and tweets made of different materials, of different depths, and different risetimes trying to make cohesive music. The Maggies have that advantage.
Johnnyb53 (((can sound "polite" because of the folded ribbon tweeter. More extended listening will reveal that all the treble, overtones, and air are there, but minus the overshoot, ringing, and harshness that often accompanies *pistonic* tweeters.)))

Dear Johnnyb53 I am not busting your balls with your wording but just wanted to clear up your mis use of the word.
*Pistonic* is an achievement of a perfect piston movement with drivers or grouping of drivers.
For example with pistonic behavior throughout the audible frequency range the speaker will be just the opposite of what you are referring to above.

Best,
JohnnyR
I've done some searching and apparently "pistonic" is a made-up word in the audio world, and the original use was when multiple coils and magnets are used to drive the diaphragm more evenly, like those rectangular and odd-shaped speaker drivers of the '70s (many by Yamaha).

What I really meant was what we're used to hearing from some metal domed tweeters, which invariably have a resonant frequency spike (just about the range of hearing) and what's called "oil canning" which is also a distortion characteristic of overdriven metal domes.

My main point is that the accordion pleat compression drive of the Heil-type motion transformer, with its larger radiating surface and minimal motion, doesn't exhibit the harshness characteristic of many metal domes, and therefore might sound rolled off when it is actually delivering accurate treble without accompanying mechanical distortions we're used to hearing.
@Johnnyb53 The RAAL ribbon in the HT3 showed plenty of air without calling attention to itself, the ribbon in the Triton1 didn't give me anywhere near the same effect. But who knows if I was hearing the Triton's at their best or not...
I don't know if this was a factor in your audition, but the GoldenEar tweeter has very limited vertical dispersion and needs to be at ear level to show its stuff. Here are the measurements from Stereophile's Triton 1 review. You'll see that the tweeter response is very flat up to around 9Khz, and then actually rises a few dB for the next octave. However, However, the dispersion graphs show a sharp dropoff above and below the tweeter level.