2. speakers
  3. 1434749870

Salk HT3, SF Cremona M, Magnepan 3.7 or ML Ethos?

Help! :) I have been getting by with old Panasonic SB6's which are said to have an electrostatic sound for a piston type speaker design. Obviously they are pretty old monitors, but one thing they do well is (pinpoint) image with good width and moderate depth. But alas, I am finally ready to get some real (or at least modern) speakers.

I have heard the HT3's and liked the sound and look of them. They threw up a huge soundstage, but perhaps at the expense of the "pinpoint" imaging I am used to, and seemed exaggerated (e.g. silhouette of singers too large). However, I am not sure if I heard them in the best setup as they were very far from the rear wall (like 15ft) and in a huge room (maybe 35' square or even bigger). This may also have made the image seem entirely behind the plane of the speakers whereas I think a little closer is nicer (to me).

I have also heard the 3.7's in a dealer showroom, presumably properly setup. I felt like the big panels were "blocking" some of the sound and the soundstage was entirely between the panels, which made it compressed without much space between instruments, etc. Highly resolving and detailed, but lacked "air" (which the HT3s did very well). That room was probably 13'x18' or maybe slightly larger. I was somewhat disappointed given the stellar reviews. In fact, I felt the 1.7's (in a different room) in some respects sounded better.

I have not heard the Cremona M but did hear Olympica Monitors briefly at a different dealer. The room was probably 17' square, the Olympica's were maybe 2 feet off the rear wall. Since I only got 5-10mins with them, I barely got a sense but there was something nice about the SF sound that has me curious to hear a used model I might actually afford, hence the Cremona M.

Finally, I have not heard the Ethos but will hopefully get a chance to hear the Summit X in the next few days.

I am after speed, extension, holographic 3D soundstage with pinpoint placement of sounds/instruments/voices, refinement, low-level detail and resolution. Budget is 5K used. Does anyone have some advice? With the HT3's so far from the wall would that have distorted my impression of their imaging and image size? Are the Cremona M's in the same league as these other speakers or no? I am finding this very difficult.
zynec
audioconnection
1,271 posts
 
Johnnyb53 (((can sound "polite" because of the folded ribbon tweeter. More extended listening will reveal that all the treble, overtones, and air are there, but minus the overshoot, ringing, and harshness that often accompanies *pistonic* tweeters.)))

Dear Johnnyb53 I am not busting your balls with your wording but just wanted to clear up your mis use of the word.
*Pistonic* is an achievement of a perfect piston movement with drivers or grouping of drivers.
For example with pistonic behavior throughout the audible frequency range the speaker will be just the opposite of what you are referring to above.

Best,
JohnnyR
johnnyb53
3,510 posts
 
I've done some searching and apparently "pistonic" is a made-up word in the audio world, and the original use was when multiple coils and magnets are used to drive the diaphragm more evenly, like those rectangular and odd-shaped speaker drivers of the '70s (many by Yamaha).

What I really meant was what we're used to hearing from some metal domed tweeters, which invariably have a resonant frequency spike (just about the range of hearing) and what's called "oil canning" which is also a distortion characteristic of overdriven metal domes.

My main point is that the accordion pleat compression drive of the Heil-type motion transformer, with its larger radiating surface and minimal motion, doesn't exhibit the harshness characteristic of many metal domes, and therefore might sound rolled off when it is actually delivering accurate treble without accompanying mechanical distortions we're used to hearing.
zynec OP
22 posts
 
@Johnnyb53 The RAAL ribbon in the HT3 showed plenty of air without calling attention to itself, the ribbon in the Triton1 didn't give me anywhere near the same effect. But who knows if I was hearing the Triton's at their best or not...
johnnyb53
3,510 posts
 
I don't know if this was a factor in your audition, but the GoldenEar tweeter has very limited vertical dispersion and needs to be at ear level to show its stuff. Here are the measurements from Stereophile's Triton 1 review. You'll see that the tweeter response is very flat up to around 9Khz, and then actually rises a few dB for the next octave. However, However, the dispersion graphs show a sharp dropoff above and below the tweeter level.
zynec OP
22 posts
 
Thanks Johnny, it is not possible that I was above axis but recalling the setup it is likely I was below axis and so that could explain at least part of the lack of tweeter response that I experienced. Irregardless, I have little doubt that they are not what I am looking for.

I had the chance to hear the Aerial Acoustics 6T and 7T and Vandy 2ceSig2 today. I heard the 6T with a PrimaLuna tube amp, the 7T with McIntosh SS gear and the Vandy also with a Prima Luna tube amp. The 6T was not so impressive to me so I won't say much more. The 7T is very good, refined, smooth, detailed, wonderful sound staging, delicate, proper image placement in height as well as width and depth, I was impressed. The tonality is very good but ultimately a bit on the dry or "boring" side for me, so while I could appreciate all the excellent things this speaker does it somehow did not excite me in the way that the 1038BE did (which had a more vibrant tonality and also seemed better with dynamics). I have to add some disclaimers. First, I heard the 7T in a properly set up room just for those speakers, whereas I heard the 1038BE on the left side of a room where the right side was storing ~20 pairs of speakers, i.e. not a well dialed in room. So, while I would say the imaging/soundstaging of the 7T was better than the 1038BE, this may have been due to the room. Both of these speakers are 10K/pair, if I was going consider one I would definitely want to hear the 1038BE's as well setup as the 7T's. Second, the music selection where I heard the 7T was not as vast as where I heard the 1038BE's and in particular I wasn't able to play songs I know very well, so my ability to completely interpret the differences between these two speakers is limited.

So, what about the Vandy? Wow, what a surprise that was. Thank you, zd542, for the suggestion even if I was quick to initially pass on it. The tonality of the Vandy was more beautiful (for me - i.e. closer to the 1038BE's tonality) than the 7T's to me, they soundstaged and imaged very well, not as well as the 7T's of course (especially in height) but still very well, and they were detailed (nearly at the same level as these other models but not at the same level of refinement) and were dynamic, and overall just a fun and easy speaker to listen to and like. The Vandy's are good at pretty much everything, they are just not at the level of these 10K speakers, but good enough that I would not be too disappointed pocketing the 7.5K difference for other things :)

Tomorrow I will hear a used pair of 3A signatures and be able to play my music, so hopefully I will be able to confirm this unexpected surprise (although I do not know what version of the 3A sigs these are - the 2ceSigs I heard were the latest edition).
More to discover