*talks* —“thoughts”, sorry for the misprint
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As a drummer and one who has played gigs with people who have been on gold and platinum Lps and even a gig with a 9 time grammy nominee who turned to me after the 4th song and said "you guys can really play " Here is my take on what is "Musical" in audio gear Non musical= words like "soundstage, upper bass, smooth highs, detail etc etc Musical =. grooving to the beat, nodding ones head, dancing, singing along etc musicians have no idea what audiophiles talk about...the list of words is endless In my findings....the more words used to describe a system....the less musical it is.
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Before disagreeing with someone first we must understand him ... 😁 My english mastery is really bad and i know it when i read philosopher as Santayana...
You completely miss my point... Then my english is more than bad indeed...😊
For sure there is no direct relation between individual taste and the gear pieces upgrade proposed .... Market sellers dont want you to loose your "taste" and forced you to buy their piece . They want in the opposite first confirm you in your taste omniscience and rightfulness...Second, this product they sell is for those who had a selective "taste" precisely.... They dont sell ketchup in audio and they dont want to convince a high end kitchen fine cook to buy ketchup... Do you get it ?
My point is about the importance of acoustic experience and concepts in not only the definition of "musical" concept but also for his experience... What we hear is conditioned by the way we are trained by our own history ...We must go further in life and we can learn how to hear new music and we can learn basic acoustics too to understand what to hear and how to modify it by changing the parameters... Tuning a room is like tuning a piano in many ways...
An acoustician designing a great Acoustic Hall must go beyond his untrained innate "taste" and apply concepts inherited from his training as musician and acoustician to assure an optimal experience for the listeners.... There is no irrational or idiosyncratic "taste" here at play.... ( It is not here as a consumer going with his "taste" to buy an amplifier Mcintosh or Pass labs as the ultimate acoustic answer to all his listening experience problems etc )
In my room with my chosen gear system when it is a synergetical relatively well made choice , nevermind his price, me too i would be in the obligation to set my speakers/ears/room right , not according to my "taste" so much but with my acoustic knowledge acquired by experiments or past experience ...
Taste there is....(but it is not about taste here)
Then claiming that taste play the main role or do not play any role at all is being "not even wrong" , these are useless claims ...
Acoustics with an (s) is not mere room acoustic but include psychoacoustics ... It is the knowlefge and experiments basis to not only define but reach a more "musical " experience in MY ROOM or in any room because all the concepts used were reach after deep studies and experiments with all kind of human subjects with all different tastes, trained , untrained or partially trained ......
Also you confuse creative imagination with fantasy in perception...
When we perceive something, it is the result of conditioning and habit.... We are blind to reality, we see what we had learn to see with the CONCEPTS at our disposal...
Now imagine a children drawing made of points , this set of point must be completed by adding the lines.... Imagine there is no numbers identifying the set of points... You need creative imagination to guess rightfully how to com-plete the form without errors... Fantasy or passive imagination will attract you to any form "imagined" but not the good one...
Leonardo Da Vinci as well as archimedes physico=geometrical imagintion with his fulcrum point concept, Goethe with his seeing of the plant metamorphosis in time etc all thse three geniuses use creative imagination to ENHANCE perception out of the robotic day to day learned habit...
No need of quantum physics to understand basic perception and the necessity to train us to improve it... We see and look with eyes/brain processing + creative imagination +thinking concepts....
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For sure you are right...😊
---The discourse in audio marketing is completely focussed on the gear attributes and the perception of these gear pieces attributes ... ( as if acoustics conditions could be only a secondary matter in the evaluation) All reviewers and their readers speak the same basic lingo.... ( bass, high, mids. imaging, soundstage etc )
--- The language of acoustics and psychoacoustics is completely different, it is made of physical or physiological and neurological concepts and of mathematics... When have you read in a review of gear system or about a pieces of audio that the "listener envelopment" factor (LV ) relative to the sound source dimensions (ASW) imply a tyrransition time near 100 ms , then that this speakers in this room geometry could be better than the one this seller want to sell to you ? This is absolute acoustic fact with NO RELATION TO TASTE ...
--- There is also the language of music completely different from the language of audio marketing and from the language of acoustics... Musical rythm, beat, meter, measure, tempo , time signature, had nothing to do with the time in psychoacoustics Hall or room nor with the gear dac timing scale /frequencies ratio ...
With these three languages and three set of concepts we must learn how to hear and what to hear.... The less important of this three language is the lingo associated with the gear pieces as "tasteful" or not by the reviewers or consumers...But if a clever designer use psychoacoustics facts based on the statistical measures of enough human subjects to be a rule , as for the way to incorporate or decrease some distortions orders, or how to use the time dependant working dimension of the human brain/ears in his design , this is science applied not mere "taste" applied...
Music create his own time dimensional experience, it is not the time of physics...it is a time dimensions qualities rooted in the human moving body as the creator of sound and speech and music, dancing, playing, singing .... We can choose to stay silent as you wisely recommend as a musician drummer and avoid audiophiles lingo or any set of words... You are right... But when we face the problems which are related to the installation of a playback system in a room , we need to know and understand what needed to be done to optimize the system /room... We need acoustics concepts and possible experiments with an (S) ... We dont need our "taste" so much and we dont need the marketing lingo ... Psychoacousticians had already studied humans and their specific needs in sound and music perception .... We dont know all but we know enough to understand how to optimize any playback system at any price ... In a "musical" experience about the gear/room : Taste there is for sure, but it is not mainly about taste... We know when a system/room is right and musical....We cannot explain it in words save using poetry... We feel it in our body... But this silent knowing experience dont nullify acoustics , in the opposite it confirm it in his concepts and experience ... Any musician check the Hall acoustic or the room where he will play and can be able to describe all his characteristics for the worst or for the better ... Any musician check also the acoustic state of his instrument for the same reason ... A drum is way more complex acoustic object than what meet the eyes... It is the same for a gear system in a room ...
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"musical" or "more musical" is an acoustical judgement which cannot be made without a minimal clarity of sound perceived ... Acoustics parameters are multiple , even limestone matter here at Epidaurus theater ... It seems that there is no need there for a piece of gear to have clarity of sound?😁 No need for taste either ? 😁 Only ears/brain located at the right place for sure, the clarity is not the same at all spot... But everyone could listen an actor in this theater with no mic at all place ... If loudness and clarity level there at Epidaurus or in a great Hall or in your dedicated room or even in your living room are conditioned by acoustics parameters , , perhaps you must think that the geometry, the topology, the reverberation time and the dimensions of your room , the acoustical material content of your room and many other factors as your inner ears structure, your HTRF, etc will at least matter as much than the dac and amplifier and speakers you had chosen with only your mere "taste" ? 😊
https://greekreporter.com/2023/12/27/epidaurus-ancient-theater-sound-greece/
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