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New TT : Balanced vs. Unbalanced Connection?

I am in a six-month process of assembling a system will last me for the next 5-10 years. I’m set on the components, so please do not try to talk me out of my selections. My question here is a technical one.

I have purchased a Thorens TD–1601 and a Nagaoka MP–200 cartridge. I am trying to decide on the Integrated amp between Yamaha’s A-S3200 and A-S2200. The key difference for this question being the A-S3200 has two balanced inputs and the A-S2200 has one. I will use the first balanced connection to connect a recently purchased HiFi Rose RS-150b Streamer/DAC.

Now to my real question. The semi-automatic Thorens TD-1601 has both balanced and unbalanced outputs. I am considering buying a Schitt Skoll phono pre which has balanced in-and-out. In that case, I would buy the Yamaha A-S3200, needing two balanced inputs.

So, ASSUMING the phono preamp on the Yamaha A-S2200 is comparable to the Schitt Skoll, will I get markedly better sound by going fully unbalanced, with the Skoll and the much more expensive A-S3200, or unbalanced direct from Thorens TT into the highly regarded phone pre of the A-S2200?

What benefits will I get by going balanced? How much benefit? It is worth the complexity, extra box, cables, $2,000-3,000? I can afford it if much better, but don’t want to spend money unnecessarily. The TT and the integrated will be right next to each other, so distance is not a factor. Or is the A-S3200 that much better? …I like the BIGGER meters.

My current speakers are Paradigm Reference Studio 40 v2, which I love and have two pair, a super sleeper. They are not likely to be changed…one day Fyne Audio.

To reiterate, this is a technical question about the merits of balanced turntable connections. Thanks for the input. I have learned much from this forum over the last few years.

 

gemoody
veerossi
169 posts
 

@bigtwin

Here’s a video in case you ever want to convert your Rega:

 

bigtwin's avatar
bigtwin
1,204 posts
 

@veerossi   Interesting video.  Thanks.

lewm
13,099 posts
 

Sleepwalker, I hope you get the salient point that ICs per se count for nothing if the phono stage (in this instance) is not capable of balanced operation. Therefore you can’t have one without the other. These days there are components that provide XLR inputs but do not treat the signal in balanced mode. 

elliottbnewcombjr
5,461 posts
 

that Rega video,

converting factory 'solid' rca's to 'quite delicate' XLR seems to me a fine example of stubborn or obsessive absurdity. 

atmasphere's avatar
atmasphere
11,834 posts
 

You muddy the waters when you mistakenly claim they aren’t balanced.

@cleeds  I've not once anywhere on the web made the claim as you suggest above. I think you misunderstood something, since what I posted previously did not contradict this statement of yours:

It’s a simple fact that designs such as the excellent ARC products will yield 6 db greater gain when run in balanced mode.

My comment was regarding a phono cartridge. So let's examine that and you'll see I was right. Let's start with the single-ended connection: the output of the cartridge is applied to the input of the phono section and ground. The total output of the cartridge might be 0.5mV. Now if you apply that same cartridge to a balanced phono input, the output of the cartridge is unchanged- its still 0.5mV. So there is no '6dB increase in output' of the cartridge- it is in fact exactly the same.

As I mentioned in my post, at the output of a balanced preamp that does not support AES48, there can be a 6dB in the apparent increase in gain if that output is connected to a balanced amp as opposed to single-ended. That is because a non-compliant balanced circuit simply has two single-ended outputs, one out of phase with the other. So if you use one and get a Volt out of it, if you use both you get 2 Volts which is a 6dB increase.

If the circuit supported AES48 then neither output references ground- they reference each other (like you see at the output of a phono cartridge). Its worth noting that this means that to drive balanced lines correctly (IOW to winnow all the benefits of the technology, such as interconnect cable artifact immunity and immunity to ground loops) what ever is driving the balanced line has to be floating source.

You don't have to do it that way of course but if you do it gets better.

@gemoody The cartridge screws was a tip from @mijostyn, not me.

@elliottbnewcombjr That is a bit odd- XLRs are a lot more rugged than RCAs.

Oh, and one more thing, phono cartridges produce a differential signal that is not referenced to any ground

@sleepwalker65 Actually this is the literal definition of a balanced source. So the output of a phono cartridge or tape head is inherently balanced.

 

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