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  3. 161137-245

TONEARM DAMPING : DAMPED OR NOT ? ? USELESS ? ? WELCOMED ? ?

Dear friends: This tonearm critical subject sometimes can be controversial for say the least. Some audiophiles swear for non damped tonearms as the FR designs or SAEC or even the SME 3012 that is not very well damped in stock original status.

Some other audiophiles likes good damped tonearms.


In other thread a gentleman posted:


"  If a cartridge is properly matched to the tonearm damping is not required. " and even explained all what we know about the ideal resonance frequency range between tonearm and cartridge ( 8hz to 12hz. ). He refered to this when said: " properly matched to the tonearm ".


In that same thread that a Triplanar tonearm owner posted:


" This is the one thing about the Triplanar that I don't like. I never use the damping trough...... I imagine someone might have a use for it; I removed the troughs on my Triplanars; its nice to imagine that it sounds better for doing so. "


At the other side here it's a very well damped tonearm:


https://audiotraveler.wordpress.com/tag/townshend/


Now, after the LP is in the spining TT platter ( everything the same, including well matched cartridge/tonearm.  ) the must critical issue is what happens once the cartridge stylus tip hits/track the LP grooves modulations.

The ideal is that those groove modulations can pass to the cartridge motor with out any additional kind of developed resonances/vibrations and that the transducer makes its job mantaining the delicated and sensible signal integrity that comes in those recorded groove modulations.

 That is the ideal and could be utopic because all over the process/trip of the cartridge signal between the stylus tip ride and the output at the tonearm cable the signal suffers degradation (  resonances/vibrations/feedback ) mainly developed through all that " long trip " .


So, DAMPING IS NEED IT AT THE TONEARM/HEADSHELL SIDE OR NOT?


I'm trying to find out the " true " about and not looking if what we like it or not like it is rigth or not but what should be about and why of that " should be ".


I invite all of you analog lovers audiophiles to share your points of view in this critical analog audio subject. WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT?


Thank's in advance.



Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.






Ag insider logo xs@2xrauliruegas
Ag insider logo xs@2x
rauliruegas OP
13,101 posts
 

@mijostyn  : In this thread and through the Townshend white papers/tesis exist the scientific/measures facts that tells your theory of not silicon damping is wrong and Townshend proved with his design.

I think that you are not aware of that jitter distortion because you never listened/tested the same tonearm/cartridge with and with out that tray.

 

You need to do it and remember that the you don't need to immerse totally the rod in the silicon tray because you always can put at diffeent immerse distance an additional to that we can make the test with different silicon viscosity values. 

If you decide do not do it then you can't make any critic inside this very specific subject.  You like science and there are those white papers and your own first hand experiences that can or not corroborate your hypothesis showed till today.

Have a good trip if any.

 

R.

 

R.

Ag insider logo xs@2x
rauliruegas OP
13,101 posts
 

Btw, @dogberry: how much time ago did you that tests with the V/IV  with and with out silicon?

 

R.

Ag insider logo xs@2x
rauliruegas OP
13,101 posts
 

@mijostyn  : I have to say that time later that when started this thread and in some ways " following " what you said I came back to listen my cartridges/tonearms with out use of the silicon tray and I did it in the last 6-8 months till I decided ( due to some kind of improvements in my room/system ) to tes again the silicon tray that it was an is revelatory for say the least and it's in this way as I decided to folow with that kind of cartridge damping.

 

R.

dogberry
684 posts
 

Btw, @dogberry: how much time ago did you that tests with the V/IV  with and with out silicon?

Within the last 18 months the Reference moved off the Series V, initially when it went for a rebuild. When it came back, I put it on a Series IV (as the V now has an LP-S), where it sounds just as exciting. Recently I removed the damping silicon from the V, to see if it made a difference to the LP-S, but I don't think it does. It may be that those cartridges just don't need any damping on those arms.

Ag insider logo xs@2x
rauliruegas OP
13,101 posts
 

Dear @dogberry : The issue is that it’s not an easy task to detect the analog jitter/natural mistracking, you can see that here mijostyn just has no answer or solution or as you think that it’s not need it.

 

All cartridges in all tonearm need it and to detect the " phenomenon " we need a self very good test proccess especially with LP tracks recorded at high velocities.

Now that I know what to look for I have not many trouble to detect it but first we need to make several tests til we can be " there ".

Before I started this thread I was over 0ne year making almost everything of cartridge damping to know if it’s need it or not and as Townshend my conclusion was and is that it’s need it.

 

How each one of us do it that cartridge damping is all about each one of us the easy way to go is with the silicon tray but if any of you have other " solutions " then are welcomed if decide to share it. Remember that’s it’s not to damp the tonearm but the riding cartridge: this is the real subject.

 

SME had and have its reasons to have that silicon tray as did it Micro Seiki that was a cartridge manufacturer too and other tonearm manufacturers.

Say it does not need it can’t help to the issue and if that does not need it is your way of thinking at least share an explanation why does not need it.

 

Again science and Townshend tesis says it's need it.

R.

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