My own DACs are the Audio Synthesis DAX and Musical Fidelity TriVista 21, which sounds better at 96 than 192. This is also true of my friends MF 324. I have heard new DACs on other systems but not been motivated to purchase any. My own experience was reinforced for me by tests conducted by HIFICRITIC, which, like the early Stereophile, takes no ads. They found that the Zanden three box system was far and away the best with a rating of 105 on their scale. My 1992 DAX score is 45, the MF hasn't been tested. In a recent test of players the Moon Equinox RS scored 20, the Naim CD5i 11, the Bel Canto CD-2 25 and the Rega Saturn 29. They also tested a Rotel CD855 from 1990 and it scored 25. They also tested the MSB Platinum DAC 111 which is a very expensive DAC (10,000 pounds over there) and it scored 47. The reviewers conclusion was that "The current generation of DACs might have a great measured specifications, but they don't necessarily reproduce music as well as earlier technologies with less impressive measures performance. '24' bit DACs generally have excellent linearity, a low noise floor and the ability to draw power off low voltage supplies that make them useful in some applications, but musically I feel that they all gravitate toward blandness." He adds "the really good audio DACs in my opinion are all multi-bit types. Alas, few are now in production, and those few are expensive which means that you only find them in high priced players." This scenario should be familiar to you tube users [ I am not one] where a developed technology is discarded in favor of a new one that measures better and is cheaper and more convenient to build. The Zanden, Lab 42 and Audio Note UK are all multi bit chip users and sound very good despite inferior measured performance.
New vs. old DACs - opinions?
I'm on the market for a new DAC. I've noticed that you can find used DACs from, say, 8 years ago that are heavily marked down from their original price. I just saw one sell for $400 that was originally $1500, for example.
So, correct me if I'm wrong, but the progression of DACs seems very different from that of amps... an old amp, like McIntosh, is still highly competitive today... but it seems that newer DACs are more evolved, refined, and use higher quality parts for less money, right?
Another thought is - before DACs were as widely used as they are today, perhaps the mark-up was much greater in the past...? Where-as now, with the influx of foreign manufactured DACs, there is a healthy bit of competition that keeps prices down by limiting the manufacturer mark-up. Correct me if I'm off here as well.
So, overall I'm wondering if I would be better off buying something new like a Keces or MHDT DAC or finding something older that is heavily marked down.
So, correct me if I'm wrong, but the progression of DACs seems very different from that of amps... an old amp, like McIntosh, is still highly competitive today... but it seems that newer DACs are more evolved, refined, and use higher quality parts for less money, right?
Another thought is - before DACs were as widely used as they are today, perhaps the mark-up was much greater in the past...? Where-as now, with the influx of foreign manufactured DACs, there is a healthy bit of competition that keeps prices down by limiting the manufacturer mark-up. Correct me if I'm off here as well.
So, overall I'm wondering if I would be better off buying something new like a Keces or MHDT DAC or finding something older that is heavily marked down.
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- 45 posts total
Your question is too general. You need to compare specific DACs, old or new. You also need to make sure the DAC, OLD or NEW, fits into you system well, for example, ratio of pre-amp input impedance to DAC output impedance should not be too low. Another factor to consider based on you rcurrent system and listening tastes is whether you are going for "detail" or "smoothness" or some combo of both. You also need to consider whether jitter rejection will be an important consideration for the DAC or no depending on your source(s). If you are not sure, then safer to go with a DAC that is more resistant to jitter from the source, like most upsampling DACS that must re-clock the bits. |
You also need to consider whether jitter rejection will be an important consideration for the DAC or no depending on your source(s). If you are not sure, then safer to go with a DAC that is more resistant to jitter from the source, like most upsampling DACS that must re-clock the bits. Although it doesn't directly address the question at hand, an excellent point was made by Audiogoner Tobias in this thread a couple of months ago: http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?fcabl&1233206618 DAC's that don't have re-clocking provisions that minimize jitter, and that don't have precisely controlled input impedances, will be particularly sensitive to cable length, assuming their electrical (not optical) digital input is being used. He has found that 1.5 meter lengths usually work better than 1 meter lengths. The reason is that cable length will affect the re-arrival timing of signal reflections caused by impedance mismatch at the DAC input, after the reflections travel back to the source and then are partially re-reflected back to the DAC. Depending on the cable length, they may or may not re-arrive at the DAC input coincident with signal edges in the original incoming waveform. If they do arrive coincident, the resulting edge distortion could significantly increase jitter. And that would be pretty much independent of what source component is being used (unless the source component provided an essentially perfect impedance match at its end, preventing the re-reflection). Something to keep in mind when comparing a jitter-resistant DAC with one that doesn't have that provision. Regards, -- Al |
- 45 posts total