Do you think you need a subwoofer?

" Two subwoofers, at opposing wall midpoints, performs very nearly as well as four at the midpoints and gives a much better LF factor. "

That’s the Harman conclusion. Now, if we are using our room/system mainly to listen MUSIC where is the bass range we need be reproduced by subwoofers?

Mainly from around 50hz-60hz and down at least to 16hz but 80%-90% of our daily reproduced MUSIC bass range belongs from 60hz/70hz to 30hz and for me this is the main ( other than put at minimum the Doppler effect/IMD ) desired dedicated drivers to bass reproduction and here the phase subs control is way critical. Yes some kind of instruments MUSIC reproduction needs that the subs can works fine from 25hz to 16hz, fine means with absolute aplomb. My Velodyne has usuable 10hz frequency but not so important.

In my latest phase experienced tests I been totally sure about because the overall reproduced sound over all the system frequency range was and is improved in its quality levels as ever before the phase subs change and was only this parameter the one I touched in the subs : same volume, same crossover point, same everything including the subs positions, nothing then but the phase.

Other critical and way important issue when we are integrating subwoofers in our MUSIC system is to have a " rigth " blend " between the sub’s crossover point and the main woofers crossover point.

It has to works exactly as speakers designers do it with his speakers where they choose the rigth crossover frequency of the different filters ( HP, LP, BP ) using normally between first and third order for those filters according each frequency range driver to BLEND . No one use 6 or eigth order filters because the issue is to BLEND and not separates the frequency ranges. Then, this BLEND along the Phase are crucial.

R.

Well, Velodyne makes the blend at crossover frequency with a second order filter shape and latter on pass through fourt order and finished at 48db per octave in my HGS and the Velodyne HP is a first order filter (6db. ).

The name of the game is that blend at 12db per octave along the 6db per octave that in my case is not made by the Velodyne but at the input of my Levinson monoblocks..

R.

Dear friends: from my last sub changes I confirm that that doppler developed characterisc in woofer main speakers must be should be at absolute minimum.

The issue is that the bass range is all about MUSIC room/system quality level reproduction and the bass rage must be perfectly blended inside the bass range. This is high mid-bass, mid-bass, low mid-bass, low bass and deep bass.

That blend must permit that we be aware of eacg bass frequency range with out a bass frequency range " leader " or " leaders " and all those is the true challenge we have with the subwoofer room/system integration.

That bass frequency ranges blend will gives me the best MUSIC rythm ever and the perception of dimensional MUSIC presentation where each track performs in its each territory that’s our room seat position.

With out all those we can’t really have true MUSIC enjoyment and only " something " that we like it..

Not an easy task that bass range frecuencies blend because it’s as complex as a speaker design where the designer needs not only to choose the rigth drivers but the rigth crossover frequency for each driver and the crossover filter shape that permits a seamless blend that’s what makes the differences between a good speaker and a very good or excelent speakers.

Here mijostyn  looks as he knows about and maybe could share his point of views.

R.

@rauliruegas is right in many ways with a few caveats. 

In a normal point source system two subwoofers is fine and more does not add much. Line source systems require a driver every 4-5 feet along a wall to form a line source subwoofer to match the main speakers.

I would not bother with subwoofer drivers smaller than 12". 10" drivers are fine if you use two of them per enclosure. Most big point source systems require two 15" subwoofers. The smaller the driver the greater the distortion levels at a given volume.

Blending the subwoofers into the main speakers using second through 4th order slopes is appropriate for all subwoofers except a small number of truly excellent units. Subwoofer enclosures are extremely hard to make. Most of them are musical instruments and have a particular sound. If you use a steep slope with these subwoofers the cross is very noticeable. Turn the volume up and place your hand on the sub enclosure. If you feel any vibration you have a musical instrument. Subwoofers that have no sound of their own (do not vibrate at all) can be run higher up using very steep slopes 8-10th order (digital only) as there is little sonic difference between the subs and the main speakers at the crossover point. Here the important factor is keeping the sub out of the midrange where you will hear it. Subs are integrated correctly when you can't tell they are there. Using a low pass filter only on subwoofers is a sad proposition. Easily 1/2 the benefit of using a sub is cleaning up the midrange of the main speakers. You have to use a high pass filter on the main speakers to do this. It is not done because of the added expense of electronics and cables. 

I believe all subwoofer systems should run down to 18 Hz. Music does not go that low but venue clues do. Large venues breath at very low frequencies. With some live recordings you can feel the venue. Subwoofers should be felt more than heard. This is the difference between a live and reproduced performance. Proper subwoofers give you the feeling and excitement of a live performance. 

In my mind there is no difference in the requirements of a theater vs music system. A great music system will sound just fine in theater mode and is quite capable of rattling your teeth.

These are some important concepts to keep in mind when buying subs. Balanced force design. Some of the vibration you feel is the enclosure shaking in opposing response to cone movement. Placing a driver at opposite ends of the enclosure cancels out these forces lowering the musical instrument factor. Smaller enclosures are better because they are easier to control lowering the musical instrument factor, but they will require more power and possibly EQ. A box is the worst shape for a subwoofer. The best shape would be a sphere, but this is impossible to make. The next best shape is a cylinder. Cylinders have inherently stiff walls and are less prone to resonance than flat walls. Cylinders are relatively easy to make and I am surprised that nobody is making cylindrical subwoofers. Open baffle subwoofers are IMHO a silly concept and a florid waste of power. Why some people think they are great is more an indication of how poor many enclosed subwoofers are. There are many excellent subwoofer drivers out there. Dayton makes a Reference sub driver for any situation and I do not see how you can do any better. DIY by all means. Think big pipe with a driver in each end. You can get aluminum pipe in almost any dimension, cap the ends, drivers, binding posts and cleverness. 

Subwoofer drivers take a beating and even the best ones fail on occasion. It is not a bad idea to keep a spare driver handy. The drivers evolve and it is unlikely you will be able to get the same driver after 10 years. Without a spare you will have to replace all of them. 

I'm happy with my Genelec 8351Bs that reproduce accurately down to 32 Hz with no subwoofer. Most of what I listen to, i.e. recordings of acoustical instruments and ancient 78 RPM records, isn't recorded below that, anyway, so I don't care. It would be nice to have one, but the amount of expense and trouble I'd have to go to to get something appropriate would be far disproportionate to the amount of enjoyment I'd get out of hearing the handful of recordings I listen to with crazy-low notes. I have better things to worry about.