Squeze Box Question

MapMan(or anybody who wants to pitch in), I don't know what you mean by what computers may sound good ? If I am using a PC, to a good USB DAC like Benchmark or similar,the hard drive based music files, thru a program like ITunes or similar should sound, well great no ?
I understand the extra features from something like the squeezebox, but I also wonder about another compotent in the chain and the wireless part, if that will/could have any negative impact on sound ?

I also see there are more then one version of the squeezebox, and just now see it is a logitech product ? I thought it was slim devices ?

Thanks again, Wayne

"If I am using a PC, to a good USB DAC like Benchmark or similar,the hard drive based music files, thru a program like ITunes or similar should sound, well great no ?"

I think the answer is maybe, depending on exact computer configuration. My understanding is that not all computer USB setups are equivalent in terms of sound quality for various reasons. Variability with USB connections is a key problem area as I understand it from others.

"I understand the extra features from something like the squeezebox, but I also wonder about another compotent in the chain and the wireless part, if that will/could have any negative impact on sound ?"

No impact. Only the Squeezebox (for the clock) and DAC are involved in producing sound, similar to a transport and DAC. The computer is just a file server serving up bits to the Squeezebox and has no impact on sound quality. You just need a wireless or other network connection that is strong enough to get the bits to the Squeezebox in time prior to conversion otherwise re-buffering will occur and the sound will drop out until the needed bits are re-buffered in computer memory on the Squuezebox.

Two reasons why this particular configuration is a particularly reliable one for good sound:

1) the computer is not part of the process that creates the sound and

2) the bits needed are retrieved from physical memory on the Squeezebox or Soundbridge, which is faster and a more reliable process than reading from optical drive as in a CD transport.

So Mapman, you are saying that files retrieved from the hard drive via wireless or network cable using the SQueezebox and it's internal DAC to my preamp, MAY/COULD/WOULD sound better then a Computer via USB to something like a Benchmark or Wavelength Brick USB DAC to my pre ? Forgetting the price difference for a second, just the basic question, as we know there is quite a difference between the DACS I mentioned and a Squeezebox. I am just back do I really need the Sqeezebox or similar ? This is all new to me and I am just started thinking about this and saw this thread.
Thanks,

Wayne

Wayne,

I own a Roku, not Squeezebox, and can only speak about the sound of the Soundbridge's internal DAC. A good external DAC clearly adds value for better sound with the Roku. In my case, I started with the internal DAC and moved to the mhdt Paradisea....a big improvement.

I've read Squeezebox internal DAC is generally considered better than Roku, but I suspect a major improvement there still as well with the right external DAC.

Again, sound quality with different computers and USB configurations may vary as a result largely of jitter produced so it is not possible to say which will sound better in general. The devil is in the details.

In the end, the key to good sound is to have a handle on jitter either at the source feeding the DAC or at the DAC itself, as is the case with the Benchmark, but also use a DAC that sounds good to you.

Not all will like the sound of the Benchmark despite its technical acumen regarding jitter, particularly those that may levitate to the often less fatiguing world of analog and vinyl.

Other DACs that produce a smoother more analog-like sound, like the tubed Paradisea in my system or the better Bel Canto's for example, would appeal more to those listeners I suspect.

Wayne -

There is an old phrase, horses for courses. The bottom line is you don't need a Squeezebox unless you want music where you don't have a computer.

As I tried to point out in my first post, all computer audio works basically the same but there are many variations.

Let's deal with a few that have cropped up here.

1) Computers are not created equal. This is especially true in the PC world where they are assembled to many price points with no particular concern for this type of application.

The biggest problem with most computers is that they are electronically very noisy. That is why you have to get the music data out from the computer before converting it to an analog signal. And why almost no one who is serious does this with a sound card (with the exception of some very expensive cards from Lynx and Apogee).

2) Computer speed as measured by MIPs, RAM, GHz or whatever you like is a moot point with audio. Audio files are very small and require virtually no processing by the computer - the processing is done outboard by a dedicated piece of hardware called a DAC...

3) There are significant differences between PCs and Macs. In addition, many PC users are not that happy with the quality of iTunes especially when compared to using EAC, FLAC etc. On the other hand with a Mac, iTunes is great and EAC is not even available.

4) There is some debate about which cabling format is the best. Many people will argue AES/EBU followed by SPDIF followed by USB. But as in all things audio the devil is in the details. That is why an unmodded Squeezebox can't touch a Wavelength Brick - though one uses Ethernet and SPDIF and the other USB.

But keep in mind that because USB is a global computer standard it represents the biggest market for a manufacturer by an enormous margin. This is why you see so much activity in USB DACs.

Plus USB is good to 15 feet at a reasonable price. A 15 foot SPDIF cable would break the bank.

5) SLIM Devices developed the Squeezebox. They were recently purchased by Logitech.

6) What to do and why. The unique selling proposition that Squeezebox offers is that it is a two-way node on a computer network. Michael and Mapman both addressed this.

Let me try paint a picture.

If you use USB to connect your computer to a DAC in the other room (which could be done), you cannot control the content. Meaning that if you want to change tracks or pick a different playlist you will have to go back to the room with the computer, make the change on the computer then go back to the other room to listen.

ERGO USB devices are best suited to systems where the computer and the audio system are in the same space and can be used simultaneously. That is one reason the MacMini is so popular - it is small and quiet.

On the other hand, if you put a Squeezebox (Roku etc) in the other room using either Ethernet cabling or WiFi you can sit in the listening room and using the remote and the display on the device access the computer - wherever it is - to change tracks, select playlists etc. (How much fun that is with a large library and a single line display is a different question.)

ERGO A Squeezebox or similar device is only necessary if you want to control the content (interact) from the listening area that does not have a computer. Or as Michael describes his rig, if you want to distribute your content to multiple rooms simultaneously (which of course requires multiples of all the hardware)

Now to be clear there are alternative strategies. In the Apple world you can look at distributing your audio via Airport Express. Or controlling a remote computer using your iPhone with the free remote software.

And a Squeezebox can be controlled on small PDA type devices using specialized software.

Both these solutions utilize larger displays making the browsing experience more pleasant. Both these solutions have limitations because they are wireless devices - as does a wireless Squeezebox solution. It is location specific - you'll have to try it in your space to know.

AND FINALLY The Squeezebox can be used as a cost effective DAC in the same room. Or it can be used as an analog source. What this means is that you would then control it from your computer using the free browser based software that SLIM provides instead of something like iTunes.

In this scenario you would be using a Squeezebox instead of a USB DAC. If you are a PC guy there would be an advantage because the Squeezebox will decode FLAC.

Which brings us back to the beginning. The bottom line is you don't need a Squeezebox unless you want to control your music where you don't have a computer. Or you want a low cost DAC or analog source.