2. analog
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MC-MM-MI CARTRIDGES . DO YOU KNOW WHICH HAS BETTER QUALITY PERFORMANCE? REALLY?

Dear friends:The main subject of this thread is start a dialogue to find out the way we almost all think or be sure about the thread question :  " true " answer.

 

Many years ago I started the long Agon MM thread where several audiophiles/Agoners and from other audio net forums participated to confirm or to discover the MM/MI/IM/MF/HOMC world and many of us, me including, was and still are" surprised for what we found out in that " new " cartridge world that as today is dominated by the LOMC cartridges.

 

Through that long thread I posted several times the superiority of the MM/types of cartridges over the LOMC ones even that I owned top LOMC cartridge samples to compare with and I remember very clearly that I posted that the MM and the like cartridges had lower distortion levels and better frequency range quality performance than the LOMC cartridges.

 

In those times j.carr ( Lyra designer ) was very active in Agon and in that thread  I remember that he was truly emphatic  posting that my MM conclusion was not  true due that things on distortion cartridge levels in reality is the other way around: LOMC has lower distortion levels.

 

Well, he is not only a LOMC cartridge designer but an expert audiophile/MUSIC lover with a long long and diverse first hand experiences listening cartridges in top TT, top tonearms and top phono stages and listening not only LOMC cartridges but almost any kind of cartridges in his and other top room/systems.

 

I never touched again that subject in that thread and years or months latter the MM thread I started again to listening LOMC cartridges where my room/system overall was up-graded/dated to way superior quality performance levels than in the past and I posted somewhere that j.carr was just rigth: LOMC design were and are superior to the other MM type cartridges been vintage or today models.

 

I'm a MUSIC lover and I'm not " married " with any kind of audio items or audio technologies I'm married just with MUSIC and what can gives me the maximum enjoyment of that ( every kind )  MUSIC, even I'm not married with any of my opinions/ideas/specific way of thinking. Yes, I try hard to stay " always " UNBIASED other than MUSIC.

 

So, till today I followed listening to almost every kind of cartridges ( including field coil design. ) with almost every kind of tonearms and TTs and in the last 2 years my room/system quality performance levels were and is improved by several " stages " that permits me better MUSIC audio items judgements and different enjoyment levels in my system and other audio systems. Yes, I still usemy test audio items full comparison proccess using almost the same LP tracks every time and as always my true sound reference is Live MUSIC not other sound system reproduction.

 

I know that the main thread subject is way complicated and complex to achieve an unanimous conclusions due that exist a lot of inherent differences/advantages/unadvantages in cartridges even coming from the same manufacturer.

 

We all know that when we talk of a cartridge we are in reality talking of its cantilever buil material, stylus shape, tonearm used/TT, compliance, phono stage and the like and my " desire " is that we could concentrate in the cartridges  as an " isolated " audio item and that  any of our opinions when be posible  stay in the premise: " everything the same ".

 

My take here is to learn from all of you and that all of us try to learn in between each to other and not who is the winner but at the " end " every one of us will be a winner.

 

So, your posts are all truly appreciated and is a thread where any one can participates even if today is not any more his analog alternative or is a newcomer or heavily experienced gentleman. Be my guest and thank's in advance.

 

Regards and ENJOY THE MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,

R.

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tomic601's avatar
tomic601
12,911 posts
 

Somebody s mentioned Signet and Grace, i have both an TK-9ea and an F-9 w Soundsmith Ruby OCL. Both are excellent… especially as the allow me to get around the FET front ends of both the Herron and ARC Ref phono front ends….…..but i wouldn’t trade the relatively LOMC Kuzma, Koetsu or the Dynavector for them…

Enjoy the music….

tomic601's avatar
tomic601
12,911 posts
 

An act of clarification; TT includes effective isolation… HRS grade or better…

pindac's avatar
pindac
2,864 posts
 

The impression made from a Cartridge, as being nudged into the discussion by tomic601, is fundamentally dependant on the Mechanical Interfaces that are present.

A non- True Axis of the rotation of the Platter Baring Spindle and noise/energy transfer from the Platter Spindle Bearing Function are as the most simplistic description, a detriment to the optimal function of the Cart' in use.

The accuracy of the Speed of the rotations are at some degree of variation, quite able to be detected and ultimately effect the impression being made of the sound being produced perception of quality.

The Tonearm is very capable of impacting on the Cart' and can very easily be a detriment to the optimised function of the Cart'.

The selected Mechanical Interface for the Tonearm to Platter and Geometry used are both capable of being  a detriment to optimised function of the Cart'.

The Kinetic Energy Transfer from the Ambient Environment, into the Support Structure and Turntable > Styli / Tonearm > Styli are a detriment to the optimised function of the Cart'.

Any of the above detrimental impacts are present to a varying degree across all systems in use.

The energy sent from the Styli, to be converted to a electrical signal, to be sent on for Amplification, is not ever going to be the purest energy from the groove modulation only, the electrical signal produced will have been impacted on from other energies being transferred to the Styli when interfaced in the groove. If one thinks this is not occurring in their Vinyl Replay Set Up, there is a little bit of the fantastical at play in their thoughts.

'All things being equal', across a broad Spectrum of Users, is an impossibility.

Add to this the LOMC Cart' being reported on.

How many Cart's are being assessed on the experience had when they were at their condition, that could be suggested they were at their optimal.

A Brand New Cart' is well known to need a 100+hours to become balanced in the overall presentation.

When does the Cart' start to lose its designed in optimisation, only when the Styli shows wear? When the Tension Wire loosens and has lost the ideal interface with the Armature and Damper?

As for all Cart's, at what point of usage does their designed in optimised performance become one that is compromised through usage/ wear and tear/ exposure to the environment. 

Dust has been witnessed built up on the critical interfaces within a Cart' where there is a need to have a freedom of movement. Witnessed dust, has clearly been a detriment to the movement and will have been a substance that has been causing a resistance to the freedom of movement. 

As a result of differences of a condition within a Cart's environmental effects on the Cart' not all being equal over a period of time. Once more, 'All things being equal' is an impossibility to be in place.

Each report is a unique and bespoke experience, that can only be had by being at the place where the sound is being produced.

I have no problem with accepting anybody's reports on the experience they have had, the impression made on them and influence of the impression, which motivated their end choice.

A Cart' from the design MM/MI/IM/MF/LOMC/HOMC/Ceramic, where one has proved to be a most preferred Cart' at what ever the cost, is totally acceptable.

Due to all the variations that can be present and impact detrimentally on a Cart' being used, it is not possible for myself to believe there is a report that is one to be ubiquitous, all reports are unique.

Depending on the environment the Cart' is used in, the user report can be quite flawed in its content about the Cart's quality at producing energy to be transferred to produce sound.            

wolf_garcia
6,702 posts
 

Old Linn Basik/Akito going from MMs to current Ortofon Quintet Blue MC...sort of amazing sounding...tweaked by nearby Goodman's...el cheapo...into an old Caimbrige phono pre with a bespoke Peter Madnick Pangea power supply. Sounds superb.

dogberry
664 posts
 

I've been inspired to read about Induced Magnet and Variable Reluctance cartridges as variations on the Moving Iron concept as a result of this thread. It always seemed a bit odd to classify a Decca as being the same thing as a Grado or a Soundsmith or Nagaoka, and now I have alternative names available! Decca used neither, I think, preferring to call it a tip-sensing design.

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