SUT help


Hello all,

I've combed the forums and pretty much every SUT thread either devolves into arguments of the merits for/against, or gets hyper specific. I'm assuming to properly match a SUT, it needs to be selected based on the cartridge AND phono pre-amp. Since I haven't found a thread about my specific combo...here I am.

I don't know a TON about SUTs, but I'd like to experiment to see if adding one will enhance my experience.

Currently, my cartridge is a Hana ML and my phono pre-amp is the Modwright PH 9.0XT. I may possibly move up to the Hana Umami Red in the nearish future, but the specs are fairly similar between that and the ML.

Hana ML specs: 0.4mv; 7 ohm/1khz
Hana Umami Red specs: 0.4mv; 6 ohm/1khz

Modwright PH 9.0xt - MM input is 52db gain, with option to lower -6 and -12 to 46db and 40db.

I currently use the MC input which offers 64db of gain (-6, -12). I've typically kept it at 64db and alternate between 100ohm and 250ohm for load impedance settings. The 470 is too much.

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Not sure if its possible to have a SUT that would work well with both the ML and umami red, but if so, I'm all ears. If not and they each need specific ones, I'd be considering the ML first and foremost.

Any help is appreciated. I don't really have any clue how to determine what ratio is best and whether copper or silver pair better with these cartridges. I had EM/IA recommended to me in the past, but their pricing is well beyond what I'd like to spend on one (~$1500 or less, ideally?)

128x128mmcgill829

@mmcgill829 As Stated, I have experienced many SUT's, a large selection of these on the home system, that are with retail Values of Approx' £300 - £2K and maybe even more expensive if listened to in other systems.

These SUT's are designs no longer produced, through to available designs.

Additionally, I have experiences SUT's that are produced using Tranx's referred to above and others, that have been utilised as a DIY Build.

As a result of Phonostage Bake Off's attended, I have experienced many Phon's used with a In Built MC Stage and a MM Stage with a SUT.

From a large range of experiences, I have not experienced too many SUT's I have thoroughly enjoyed and could live with.

Also when a SUT has been of real Interest, it is because it has produced something in the end sonic, that is much more wanted to be maintained than the MC Input can achieve.

As an individual with an all Valve System and a main Phon' being Valve Input / Valve Output design, along with Phon No 2 being a Valve Hybrid, I have selected SUT's that are in your description in the range of being Neutral. ( Richness being detected is a unique preference, it causes endless debate or blatant rejection, I've seen this regular in Group Assessments. One's own Get of the Bus point for a Tone is another's that is classed as best avoided).

The idea of having the Tranx's placed within the Phon' is an OK idea, but will be limiting to your experiencing SUT's or Head Amp's if they become a device of interest. 

The Sculpture A has been referred to above, I have been demo'd these in both Copper and Silver Coil Tranx's and have been so impressed, these are on my must try in the home system short list, not much gets on to that list today.

A thread about SUT's and produced by a Forum member who's posts are looked forward to by myself is attached.

  

 

Your MC stage of your Phono Stage IS A SUT.

ALL MC low signal in/MM strength out are SUTs.

Your Phono has a terrific set of optional Loading:

ModWright PH 9.0

MC Loading: 10-20-50-100-250-470

And, independent and adjustable gain is the holy grail IMO.

.............................

IOW, you already have an EXCELLENT SUT

and, SUTs are not supposed to have a sound, exactly the opposite, just step it up without changing the sound of the cartridge or the sound of the MM Phono Stage.

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Additional Cartridges: the sound of any cartridge you have/get needs to get thru a SUT without alteration. I’d put money on the fact that your ModWright does just that.

Aside from researching/considering any cartridge's sound characteristics, which are ’preferred, not better’, I always encourage looking for technical specs: wide channel separation, and tight channel balance, the combo yields terrific imaging of the ’preferred’ cartridge sound.

@elliottbnewcombjr Your Statement:  

"SUTs are not supposed to have a sound, exactly the opposite,"

"Your MC stage of your Phono Stage IS A SUT."

Are these statements based as the outcome of personally experiencing a Broad Range of Phonostages in use, where MC Inputs, or as you describe ( On Board SUT's ) are assessed for how the end sound produced by the system overall, impacts on your own unique preferences for produced sound ?

Similarly, the SUT / Head Amp Off Board and connected to the MM Input. Are your comments made as the outcome of having personally experienced Broad Range of these configurations. Which have been assessed for how the end sound being produced by the system overall, impacts on your own unique preferences for produced sound ? 

My experiences of MC Inputs and Off Board SUT's used with the MM Input, leaves myself with the perception that a Richness of Tone will be added when a SUT is used with the MM Input. 

I do not class this as a unwanted perception, I am encouraging those interested to be aware there will be a perception of some type detected, and it their unique tolerance of the perceived presence, that will be influential in making a added device become an attractor or to be repelled.

One SUT experience is not a broad experience of SUT's and the influence a SUT can have is not likely to be realised from limited exposure to the devices.

I though my own Journey was concluded with SUT's, Head Amp's were of Interest, then along come Sculpture A, and SUT's are of real interest once more.  

 

Another Link from a broad range of experienced forum members making the case for Off Board SUT > MM Input a option in discussions on Phon's that will cost the price of a nearly new used vehicle.

 

 

SUTs are like seasoning on food.  They definitely change the sound, it is silly to think they don't.  Silver wire sounds different than copper, the core material matters, how they are wound etc. also matters.  They are not everyone's cuppa.  No matter.  Everyone should make up their own mind based on their own experience. They work better with some phono stages than others, some cartridges than others.  They are just another tool in the box.  No more, no less.  Best to keep an open mind.