Some thoughts on ASR and the reviews


I’ve briefly taken a look at some online reviews for budget Tekton speakers from ASR and Youtube. Both are based on Klippel quasi-anechoic measurements to achieve "in-room" simulations.

As an amateur speaker designer, and lover of graphs and data I have some thoughts. I mostly hope this helps the entire A’gon community get a little more perspective into how a speaker builder would think about the data.

Of course, I’ve only skimmed the data I’ve seen, I’m no expert, and have no eyes or ears on actual Tekton speakers. Please take this as purely an academic exercise based on limited and incomplete knowledge.

1. Speaker pricing.

One ASR review spends an amazing amount of time and effort analyzing the ~$800 US Tekton M-Lore. That price compares very favorably with a full Seas A26 kit from Madisound, around $1,700. I mean, not sure these inexpensive speakers deserve quite the nit-picking done here.

2. Measuring mid-woofers is hard.

The standard practice for analyzing speakers is called "quasi-anechoic." That is, we pretend to do so in a room free of reflections or boundaries. You do this with very close measurements (within 1/2") of the components, blended together. There are a couple of ways this can be incomplete though.

a - Midwoofers measure much worse this way than in a truly anechoic room. The 7" Scanspeak Revelators are good examples of this. The close mic response is deceptively bad but the 1m in-room measurements smooth out a lot of problems. If you took the close-mic measurements (as seen in the spec sheet) as correct you’d make the wrong crossover.

b - Baffle step - As popularized and researched by the late, great Jeff Bagby, the effects of the baffle on the output need to be included in any whole speaker/room simulation, which of course also means the speaker should have this built in when it is not a near-wall speaker. I don’t know enough about the Klippel simulation, but if this is not included you’ll get a bass-lite expereinced compared to real life. The effects of baffle compensation is to have more bass, but an overall lower sensitivity rating.

For both of those reasons, an actual in-room measurement is critical to assessing actual speaker behavior. We may not all have the same room, but this is a great way to see the actual mid-woofer response as well as the effects of any baffle step compensation.

Looking at the quasi anechoic measurements done by ASR and Erin it _seems_ that these speakers are not compensated, which may be OK if close-wall placement is expected.

In either event, you really want to see the actual in-room response, not just the simulated response before passing judgement. If I had to critique based strictly on the measurements and simulations, I’d 100% wonder if a better design wouldn’t be to trade sensitivity for more bass, and the in-room response would tell me that.

3. Crossover point and dispersion

One of the most important choices a speaker designer has is picking the -3 or -6 dB point for the high and low pass filters. A lot of things have to be balanced and traded off, including cost of crossover parts.

Both of the reviews, above, seem to imply a crossover point that is too high for a smooth transition from the woofer to the tweeters. No speaker can avoid rolling off the treble as you go off-axis, but the best at this do so very evenly. This gives the best off-axis performance and offers up great imaging and wide sweet spots. You’d think this was a budget speaker problem, but it is not. Look at reviews for B&W’s D series speakers, and many Focal models as examples of expensive, well received speakers that don’t excel at this.

Speakers which DO typically excel here include Revel and Magico. This is by no means a story that you should buy Revel because B&W sucks, at all. Buy what you like. I’m just pointing out that this limited dispersion problem is not at all unique to Tekton. And in fact many other Tekton speakers don’t suffer this particular set of challenges.

In the case of the M-Lore, the tweeter has really amazingly good dynamic range. If I was the designer I’d definitely want to ask if I could lower the crossover 1 kHz, which would give up a little power handling but improve the off-axis response.  One big reason not to is crossover costs.  I may have to add more parts to flatten the tweeter response well enough to extend it's useful range.  In other words, a higher crossover point may hide tweeter deficiencies.  Again, Tekton is NOT alone if they did this calculus.

I’ve probably made a lot of omissions here, but I hope this helps readers think about speaker performance and costs in a more complete manner. The listening tests always matter more than the measurements, so finding reviewers with trustworthy ears is really more important than taste-makers who let the tools, which may not be properly used, judge the experience.

erik_squires

I am sorry but i said acoustics elementary facts as they are...Which FUNDAMENTAL fact is precisely contradicted by many ASR objectivist if you are able to understand what my sentence imply .

I put above others post with many articles of science who explained it all and justify my short last post...

Mocking my writing will not help...Others already did it by the way...

What i learned i learned it in my 2 years experiments room ...

And if you think i am pretentious being short and on the point with this sentence which only express fundamental acoustics truth :

«It is proven by acoustics that we hear qualia corresponding to physical invariant properties of any vibrating sound source...»

What i must think after your mocking of my few sentences about your sentence

:

Let us be still and listen and feel the divine Mother loving us.....right now and forever.......then send that love out to all our childrem (everyone on the entire planet).

When you throw a pot you think the flower you throw after is a gift coming from your divinity ? 😊

I dont like to be bullied and i dont bully but i am ready to be corrected and i corrected when i can... ( my knowledge is limited)

Grow and if something is WRONG in my first sentence CORRECT me without mocking my posts lenght or lack of humor .,.. I dont joke all the time get used to it...I already posted jokes above...It is enough ...

There is an acoustic revolution right now and the articles i posted are proof about it... You dont read them and will not because their lack of jokes and

Just too dang many words

?

And i will correct you :

My post is not a joke and i am not beautiful...

And i dont need to prove anything... I like helping in this debate which is very important... Acoustics is a matter that interest me because my main subject is philosophy in general...

The articles i posted here are for ONE or TWO person who will be interested. I always posted supposing my readers are intelligent and of good faith...i like discussion more than jokes...

 

 

 
 

 

 

Now to answer your only one argument it seems :

I just say, "you need to listen to know anything"

This will not do at all ...😊

This debate between objectivist and subjectivist was going on for years...

And you attacked me ad hominem because i used too much words...It seems you are the joke ...

If you try to think for an hour without joking, you will understand that to settle this question once for all we need to understand what is hearing and what hearing is about ...

Then read the articles i gave in my posts above instead of attacking my character ...

By the way even if we are in complete disaccord Amir never attacked my character for the 7 days we discussed together few months ago...

I prefer his character to your character it seems even if we think the same about the importance of trusting and training our ears... ...😊

 

« Dont forget that my goddess love your goddess »-- Groucho Marx 🤓

There is not even a scintilla of "mocking", "bullying" nor "attacking" in @ricevs post.

How can anybody interpret the post this way is really astonishing.

Put your feet in my shoes...

He mocked my post as pretentious non sense...Lacking jokes...

How this sentence sound to your ears if you are the target :

Your first sentence seems to come from: "I am an advanced college Physics teacher and I will tell all you kindergartners what is real. You are all too young and ignorant to understand but someday after you get your Doctorate you will then know that I speak truth."

 

I dont liked it ...Is it  such " astonishing interpretation" for your working brain ?😊

And few trolls here this week mocked already my words count posts length and syntax instead of adressing my arguments..

And if you are interested more to character targetting yourself than by the CONTENT of what is acoustics in this thread and in my post stay out of the discussion...

 

I will give you a point though : i probably overreacted as usual but i am fed up this week in particular by few idiots attacking my posts WITH NO ARGUMENTS...

I am used to discuss and i never attacked character when someone gave arguments... And by the way my arguments go in the same direction than ricevs then why mocking my post ?

I dont patronize people character here i discuss their arguments then i dont tolerate character targetting ...Not my character nor other character... Period...

 

By the way read the articles i posted above before commenting about my "character" They are the content, not my character ... ...Or will you go back with another post without content about my character ? This answer of mine to ricevs dont concern you ...

 

There is not even a scintilla of "mocking", "bullying" nor "attacking" in @ricevs post.

How can anybody interpret the post this way is really astonishing.