Some thoughts on ASR and the reviews


I’ve briefly taken a look at some online reviews for budget Tekton speakers from ASR and Youtube. Both are based on Klippel quasi-anechoic measurements to achieve "in-room" simulations.

As an amateur speaker designer, and lover of graphs and data I have some thoughts. I mostly hope this helps the entire A’gon community get a little more perspective into how a speaker builder would think about the data.

Of course, I’ve only skimmed the data I’ve seen, I’m no expert, and have no eyes or ears on actual Tekton speakers. Please take this as purely an academic exercise based on limited and incomplete knowledge.

1. Speaker pricing.

One ASR review spends an amazing amount of time and effort analyzing the ~$800 US Tekton M-Lore. That price compares very favorably with a full Seas A26 kit from Madisound, around $1,700. I mean, not sure these inexpensive speakers deserve quite the nit-picking done here.

2. Measuring mid-woofers is hard.

The standard practice for analyzing speakers is called "quasi-anechoic." That is, we pretend to do so in a room free of reflections or boundaries. You do this with very close measurements (within 1/2") of the components, blended together. There are a couple of ways this can be incomplete though.

a - Midwoofers measure much worse this way than in a truly anechoic room. The 7" Scanspeak Revelators are good examples of this. The close mic response is deceptively bad but the 1m in-room measurements smooth out a lot of problems. If you took the close-mic measurements (as seen in the spec sheet) as correct you’d make the wrong crossover.

b - Baffle step - As popularized and researched by the late, great Jeff Bagby, the effects of the baffle on the output need to be included in any whole speaker/room simulation, which of course also means the speaker should have this built in when it is not a near-wall speaker. I don’t know enough about the Klippel simulation, but if this is not included you’ll get a bass-lite expereinced compared to real life. The effects of baffle compensation is to have more bass, but an overall lower sensitivity rating.

For both of those reasons, an actual in-room measurement is critical to assessing actual speaker behavior. We may not all have the same room, but this is a great way to see the actual mid-woofer response as well as the effects of any baffle step compensation.

Looking at the quasi anechoic measurements done by ASR and Erin it _seems_ that these speakers are not compensated, which may be OK if close-wall placement is expected.

In either event, you really want to see the actual in-room response, not just the simulated response before passing judgement. If I had to critique based strictly on the measurements and simulations, I’d 100% wonder if a better design wouldn’t be to trade sensitivity for more bass, and the in-room response would tell me that.

3. Crossover point and dispersion

One of the most important choices a speaker designer has is picking the -3 or -6 dB point for the high and low pass filters. A lot of things have to be balanced and traded off, including cost of crossover parts.

Both of the reviews, above, seem to imply a crossover point that is too high for a smooth transition from the woofer to the tweeters. No speaker can avoid rolling off the treble as you go off-axis, but the best at this do so very evenly. This gives the best off-axis performance and offers up great imaging and wide sweet spots. You’d think this was a budget speaker problem, but it is not. Look at reviews for B&W’s D series speakers, and many Focal models as examples of expensive, well received speakers that don’t excel at this.

Speakers which DO typically excel here include Revel and Magico. This is by no means a story that you should buy Revel because B&W sucks, at all. Buy what you like. I’m just pointing out that this limited dispersion problem is not at all unique to Tekton. And in fact many other Tekton speakers don’t suffer this particular set of challenges.

In the case of the M-Lore, the tweeter has really amazingly good dynamic range. If I was the designer I’d definitely want to ask if I could lower the crossover 1 kHz, which would give up a little power handling but improve the off-axis response.  One big reason not to is crossover costs.  I may have to add more parts to flatten the tweeter response well enough to extend it's useful range.  In other words, a higher crossover point may hide tweeter deficiencies.  Again, Tekton is NOT alone if they did this calculus.

I’ve probably made a lot of omissions here, but I hope this helps readers think about speaker performance and costs in a more complete manner. The listening tests always matter more than the measurements, so finding reviewers with trustworthy ears is really more important than taste-makers who let the tools, which may not be properly used, judge the experience.

erik_squires

Emmys for what?

Look at how he gets his equipment and also the type of equipment he reviews. He is out of his element when he discusses the high-end.

Funny how he continually discusses his qualifications but no one in this industry takes him seriously and they usually dont know him. "Oh yeah that Audio Science guy" is about the best you will get. 

I love the "trained listener" graph. 

Starting to spend too much time thinking about the ASR guy. First I dont know of many that respect Carver and take him seriously by the standards of today. Second he is not a tube designer but Amir chooses his tube amp to measure, review and mention. Hmm. As if all tube amp designs are the same and display the same characteristics. Never more true than with Amir, sweeping generalizations are the product of a small mind. 

I agree with the above post. Also what really annoys me about Amir is that he comes here to express his opinions and argues. That is fine but then DO NOT BOOT PEOPLE OFF YOUR OWN SITE if they hold contrary opinions to your minions. If you come here, then others should be able to present their opinions on ASR.
I also get annoyed when Amir takes no responsibility for the sometimes shoddy workmanship of the products he recommends. Look at the number of people, even on his own site,  who complain about the poor quality control of Topping for example.

 

@audition__audio 
"As if all tube amp designs are the same and display the same characteristics."

Yes, he has not "reviewed" any Doshi, Ayon or other hi end tube amps, has he?

@audition__audio Why continue to get yourself aggravated by Amir’s views on tube amps or anything else. I have 3 tube integrated amps between my 2 systems, a tube preamp in one of them that I use when I switch to a solid state power amp, and a tube DAC in one of the systems. I could care less whether or not he thinks it is primative technology, that folks buy them with some imagined fixation with filamnet glow, or any of his other points relative to them. I like the way each in its own way sounds with the rest of my systems’ components. Likewise, I could care less what his critique would or wouldn’t be on my speakers or other components. As long as I enjoy what I am listening to is all that matters to me. I don't need him or anyone else saving me from myself, or my money. Life is too short. Sit back and immerse yourself in the music, versus aggravating yourself with him.