MC-MM-MI CARTRIDGES . DO YOU KNOW WHICH HAS BETTER QUALITY PERFORMANCE? REALLY?


Dear friends:The main subject of this thread is start a dialogue to find out the way we almost all think or be sure about the thread question :  " true " answer.

 

Many years ago I started the long Agon MM thread where several audiophiles/Agoners and from other audio net forums participated to confirm or to discover the MM/MI/IM/MF/HOMC world and many of us, me including, was and still are" surprised for what we found out in that " new " cartridge world that as today is dominated by the LOMC cartridges.

 

Through that long thread I posted several times the superiority of the MM/types of cartridges over the LOMC ones even that I owned top LOMC cartridge samples to compare with and I remember very clearly that I posted that the MM and the like cartridges had lower distortion levels and better frequency range quality performance than the LOMC cartridges.

 

In those times j.carr ( Lyra designer ) was very active in Agon and in that thread  I remember that he was truly emphatic  posting that my MM conclusion was not  true due that things on distortion cartridge levels in reality is the other way around: LOMC has lower distortion levels.

 

Well, he is not only a LOMC cartridge designer but an expert audiophile/MUSIC lover with a long long and diverse first hand experiences listening cartridges in top TT, top tonearms and top phono stages and listening not only LOMC cartridges but almost any kind of cartridges in his and other top room/systems.

 

I never touched again that subject in that thread and years or months latter the MM thread I started again to listening LOMC cartridges where my room/system overall was up-graded/dated to way superior quality performance levels than in the past and I posted somewhere that j.carr was just rigth: LOMC design were and are superior to the other MM type cartridges been vintage or today models.

 

I'm a MUSIC lover and I'm not " married " with any kind of audio items or audio technologies I'm married just with MUSIC and what can gives me the maximum enjoyment of that ( every kind )  MUSIC, even I'm not married with any of my opinions/ideas/specific way of thinking. Yes, I try hard to stay " always " UNBIASED other than MUSIC.

 

So, till today I followed listening to almost every kind of cartridges ( including field coil design. ) with almost every kind of tonearms and TTs and in the last 2 years my room/system quality performance levels were and is improved by several " stages " that permits me better MUSIC audio items judgements and different enjoyment levels in my system and other audio systems. Yes, I still usemy test audio items full comparison proccess using almost the same LP tracks every time and as always my true sound reference is Live MUSIC not other sound system reproduction.

 

I know that the main thread subject is way complicated and complex to achieve an unanimous conclusions due that exist a lot of inherent differences/advantages/unadvantages in cartridges even coming from the same manufacturer.

 

We all know that when we talk of a cartridge we are in reality talking of its cantilever buil material, stylus shape, tonearm used/TT, compliance, phono stage and the like and my " desire " is that we could concentrate in the cartridges  as an " isolated " audio item and that  any of our opinions when be posible  stay in the premise: " everything the same ".

 

My take here is to learn from all of you and that all of us try to learn in between each to other and not who is the winner but at the " end " every one of us will be a winner.

 

So, your posts are all truly appreciated and is a thread where any one can participates even if today is not any more his analog alternative or is a newcomer or heavily experienced gentleman. Be my guest and thank's in advance.

 

Regards and ENJOY THE MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,

R.

Ag insider logo xs@2xrauliruegas

I am very much involved in experiences to be had that will mimic the Vinyl Sundays experiences quite closely.

Main difference being a Group of Individuals who have invested in their Audio Set Ups share venues to experience mainly their Vinyl, CD Sources, and one home has the extended option of offering a Streamed Music Experience.

Until recent years my whole Audio Experience has been Vinyl Centric, I was quite pleased when eventually discovered a CD presentation that I could Wed to, not bad after about 35 years of the Medium being available to myself.

After recent experiences of FLAC Files and Streamed Music, I see no reason why such a Medium is not an option for a Source within a System, even though I have detected in the system which is used for the demo's to be carried out, the Streamed content is a little less attractive as a musical content than both Vinyl, CD and FLAC. From all experiences of Streamed Music, I have not been super impressed, but do really see a place for the method, the user interface and end sonic, reminds me of a substantially upgraded Alexa, lacking the option to use a voice command.

Dear @mijostyn  : " it was on the bright side for my taste, probably because I tend to listen at louder volumes. I have EQ capability now and with a slight high end roll off this cartridge is definitely up there with the best "

 

SPL is not the cause of  bright cartridge reproduction, higher SPL only increment the cartridge bright trouble.

In the other side you said that after using  your Eq.processor is " up with the best " and I repect your opinion but for me a due of that Hyperion so high price tag sorry to say it but it's a " crap " of cartridge to compete with the " best ".

 

I know that severalowners are satisfied with but that " scenario " after your post means almost nothing. I listened once in an " unknow/no-experienced " system and have not a " trusty " opinion.

 

R.

I have not heard a Hyperion, let alone the special MkII MR version, but I expect it is as sensitive to VTA as the Sussurro. I'm ashamed that it took me a couple of years to discover what I had been missing with the Sussurro. I wouldn't dismiss the Hyperion on one hearing in someone else's system that you yourself could not adjust.

@mijostyn : Yes your Hyperion compliance is only 10cu, so in no way can even your rule of inferior limit tracking 80u. With that low compliance you can be lucky with around 70u this cartrisdge is a " bad " tracker and in this thread several gentlemants are in agreement of the critical importance of transient response all over the LP surface grooves does not matters the recordedd groove velocities and to achieve that transient response ( where MUSIC begin. ) the cartridge needs to has high tracking abilities.

You was extremely emphatic when in the Dava thread @mikelavigne posted that you need to test the Etsuro Gold and you said: never will bought a cartridge with at least minimum 80u on tracking spec.

 

That it’s not only an issue with that cartridge because talking of its cantilever the manufacturer says and a reviewer:

 

" “cactus spine” for the cantilever. The naturally tapered shape, stacked columnar fibers and desiccated resin damping fit the exact parameters of the perfect cantilever: Low mass, extreme rigidity, internal damping, and tremendous strength. "

"

its cactus-spine cantilever, an innovation motivated by the German engineer Frank Schröder, an expert in vinyl playback, a designer of tonearms, and a consultant to Ledermann. It may sound like a gimmick, but it’s not.

Soundsmith doesn’t specify the genus and species of cactus used, but claims that its spines combine the qualities most desirable in a cantilever: stiffness and damping. The spine’s stacked, longitudinal, columnar fibers are further damped with a desiccated resin. A. "

 

How those gentlemans can confirm those " desired " cantilever characteristics? over Boron or Diamod for example and that " resin " what and how is dampening and why need we that damping exctly in the cantilever?

In the other side the cartridge has not a wide frequency response for its price tag.

 

Dear friends, in several ways and through the time we audiophiles are way lower demanding and way conformist on the quality reproduction of almost all the audio items, more and more less demanding and with that conformism and that’s why manufacturers give us that so low quality products and we are truly satisfied with. In the past, say 30 years ago, any one of you can be sure that no audiophile at any price will be willing to buy a cartridge like the one in this post.

Almost the best TT’s/tonearms/cartridges came from the old/vintage times when audiophiles were really demanding. Those vintage analog items even today outperforms almost all today top ones like it or not that is the reality and if we audiophiles don’t improve way over today in the near future we have to eat only bs. and I’m sorry to tell it because I’m a member of the audio community.

 

Come on: Wake UP.

 

R.

@mijostyn I have shared with a advocate of using the Cactus Spine as a Cantilever, a White Paper I had in my possession while trying to fathom out where the Cacti and Madake share similarities. The White Paper was specific to a Few Plants from the Cactaceae Genus, which are specifically renowned in the field of Acanthochronology for their unique structure and properties shown when put under test, to show their unique resilience.

The info for somebody like myself was not the easiest to make full comprehension of the entirety of the content, but there is sections that are understood with relative ease. The good thing is I don't really have to know much, there are others who fully get the reasoning and have adopted it to what seems like a really good measure.

What was of real interest was the very positive response from the advocate of Cacti Spines I shared the info with, as one Species presented in the White Paper is a Acicular chosen by this person.

I was content with learning a Acicular with an approx' eight years of controlled environmental storage was in reserve for my design for a Cart's transformation. 

Repurposing Cart's, Cacti Spines as a Cantilever, using ones own owned materials for a extension of use. Really fits in with my progressing outlook on how I can develop a Circular Economy in my daily practices. It does seem like the Circular Economy concept has been rooted in myself before it actually received a trendy Title. 

As said, I can so I did, better for my person, than being usual, where discarding is practiced to buy in new.