2. analog
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MC-MM-MI CARTRIDGES . DO YOU KNOW WHICH HAS BETTER QUALITY PERFORMANCE? REALLY?

Dear friends:The main subject of this thread is start a dialogue to find out the way we almost all think or be sure about the thread question :  " true " answer.

 

Many years ago I started the long Agon MM thread where several audiophiles/Agoners and from other audio net forums participated to confirm or to discover the MM/MI/IM/MF/HOMC world and many of us, me including, was and still are" surprised for what we found out in that " new " cartridge world that as today is dominated by the LOMC cartridges.

 

Through that long thread I posted several times the superiority of the MM/types of cartridges over the LOMC ones even that I owned top LOMC cartridge samples to compare with and I remember very clearly that I posted that the MM and the like cartridges had lower distortion levels and better frequency range quality performance than the LOMC cartridges.

 

In those times j.carr ( Lyra designer ) was very active in Agon and in that thread  I remember that he was truly emphatic  posting that my MM conclusion was not  true due that things on distortion cartridge levels in reality is the other way around: LOMC has lower distortion levels.

 

Well, he is not only a LOMC cartridge designer but an expert audiophile/MUSIC lover with a long long and diverse first hand experiences listening cartridges in top TT, top tonearms and top phono stages and listening not only LOMC cartridges but almost any kind of cartridges in his and other top room/systems.

 

I never touched again that subject in that thread and years or months latter the MM thread I started again to listening LOMC cartridges where my room/system overall was up-graded/dated to way superior quality performance levels than in the past and I posted somewhere that j.carr was just rigth: LOMC design were and are superior to the other MM type cartridges been vintage or today models.

 

I'm a MUSIC lover and I'm not " married " with any kind of audio items or audio technologies I'm married just with MUSIC and what can gives me the maximum enjoyment of that ( every kind )  MUSIC, even I'm not married with any of my opinions/ideas/specific way of thinking. Yes, I try hard to stay " always " UNBIASED other than MUSIC.

 

So, till today I followed listening to almost every kind of cartridges ( including field coil design. ) with almost every kind of tonearms and TTs and in the last 2 years my room/system quality performance levels were and is improved by several " stages " that permits me better MUSIC audio items judgements and different enjoyment levels in my system and other audio systems. Yes, I still usemy test audio items full comparison proccess using almost the same LP tracks every time and as always my true sound reference is Live MUSIC not other sound system reproduction.

 

I know that the main thread subject is way complicated and complex to achieve an unanimous conclusions due that exist a lot of inherent differences/advantages/unadvantages in cartridges even coming from the same manufacturer.

 

We all know that when we talk of a cartridge we are in reality talking of its cantilever buil material, stylus shape, tonearm used/TT, compliance, phono stage and the like and my " desire " is that we could concentrate in the cartridges  as an " isolated " audio item and that  any of our opinions when be posible  stay in the premise: " everything the same ".

 

My take here is to learn from all of you and that all of us try to learn in between each to other and not who is the winner but at the " end " every one of us will be a winner.

 

So, your posts are all truly appreciated and is a thread where any one can participates even if today is not any more his analog alternative or is a newcomer or heavily experienced gentleman. Be my guest and thank's in advance.

 

Regards and ENJOY THE MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,

R.

Ag insider logo xs@2xrauliruegas
pindac's avatar
pindac
2,864 posts
 

I have been myself unsure about certain ideas selected for the using of a material type to be utilised for the purposes of producing Audio related equipment.

Stepping away from Metals only to Thermoplastic / Metals, that took a bit of convincing.

Stepping away from certain Tonearm Designs to a design utilising new very very stable materials, machined to unusual tolerances for a Tonearm of such a Value, the experience of such a design, was profound in how my thoughts were altered and the idea of making change become overwhelming.

The idea of selecting Beryllium as a Cantilever over other readily available options and the satisfaction that is to be had from it being used, has been substantial.

Now there is a New Approach to a particular Cantilever Material and the intent to avoid using a particular usually used material assembled into the Cart'..

Everything to date equates to, their is little to concern myself about. Those who are in the know, and have passed their knowledge on to myself, having proved the value of their knowledge tenfold to me.

I am not doubting in anyway my new intention to draw on another's knowledge, and use the not too common methods they are advocates off.

A Bespoke Build Cartridge and Bespoke Design for a very impressive Tonearm, to be produced as a Underhung Geometry are both potentially available, and steadily being encouraged to be produced.  I see no reason why both are not to be realised and used regularly. There is plenty to suggest from assessments made of such unusual practices, that plenty is on offer.  

Ag insider logo xs@2x
rauliruegas OP
13,066 posts
 

@lewm  : that cartridge not only not excelin separation but unfortunatelly in no other parameter.

 

After FR themostobvious and important cartridge parameter is its tracking abilitiesand in this critical parameter that cartridge is far away with that so low compliance level. Excellent trackers ( 90u-100u ) even for 85u needs over 20cu .

High tracking cartridge abilities is what MUSIC reproduction needs no matter what. Everything is important but flat FR and tracking levels are more important to achieve top quality reproduction levels. in analog, remember: the cartridge is the MUSIC Source.

R.

mijostyn's avatar
mijostyn
8,570 posts
 

@dogberry Give the very acute profile of the MR stylus I would assume it is more difficult to align than the Sussurro. 

@pindac You are going to have to wait another several thousand years. This is a basic characteristic of the human species. Still, the secret to a successful live is learning to have fun in spite of it. 

@rauliruegas Do you think that I do not thoroughly assess the tracking ability of all my cartridges?  A lower compliance only requires a higher VTF and that is not a problem for this stylus profile, More important is the mass of the moving assemblage, which in the case of the Hyperion is extremely low. It will handily handle velocities of 90 um. Just because it is 0.5 dB brighter than other cartridges is not a fatal flaw. It may be an advantage for people who listen at lower volumes.

Every system ever made gets brighter and bassier with volume, just a fact of life, Fletcher -Munson. 

@frogman , Exactly, some equipment or systems are better at conveying the dynamic attributes of a live performance. That is why I use ESLs. People will agree that they have unmatched transient response, but think they are not very dynamic. This come with the experience of hearing older quads and KLH speakers. Give them the right power and remove them from having to output low bass gives you an entirely different situation. 

 

lewm
13,071 posts
 

I think you’re taking your own thread off its rails, Raul.

SS do publish channel separation data for Hyperion, >36db at 1kHz, if memory serves. Our previous disagreement about response data had to do with RIAA accuracy, not cartridge output. 

pindac's avatar
pindac
2,864 posts
 

This thread went of the rails when the OP brought the Amygdala into their Posts, they went into another realm where they never venture.

 Assessing Sound is not all academic waffle, even though in Audio academia has a very large influence on how sound is produced, there is much that can be repelled as a result of Academia being used to its full influence on a design. There is also much that can be embraced as a result of an individuals experience and their understanding of academia, being used for its full influence on a design.

Hopefully now after a period to ponder the importance of Amygdala's influence on a individual, the OP is now coming to terms with their judgements are always askew to others own judgements when assessing sound in a particular environment. 

My Motto is there is Hope for Everybody.

@mijostyn I am bamboozled by what will be a very long time being realised.

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