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ultrasound record cleaning machine damaged my records

I recently purchased an ultrasound record cleaning machine. For reasons which I hope you understand I won’t name brands, because I am not wanting to make bad publicity to anyone but to discuss the matter. 

Previously, I had anather ultrasound machine which broke. I cleaned more than a 1000 records with it, with no concerns at all. The machine broke and, due to its steep price, I decided to go for a less costly solution. 

With the new machine I cleaned 7 records. One of themLeonard Cohen’s “New Skin for the old ceremony”. When listening to “Chelsea Hote”, I remarked a distortion that wasn’t there before. IT was clear on the low notes, like the instrument being out of focus or vibrating. I had some old very worn records which had that problem due to bad stylus. At first I started to think that there was a problem with the stylus of my Lyra Atlas. So I went to another version of the same album I have at home, to check if there was a problem with the stylus. Clean passage. No problem at all. 

As on the previous cleaned record I noticed a similar problem, not so apparent, I decided to clean the second version of the LP on the new machine. Playing it i heard  the same distortion on the same music. Checking out all the 7 records I cleaned, I heard issues on all of them, some less apparent ( the mono ones) and some more appparent. 

I couldn’t believe it but the new machine was damaging my records. 

The combination of my atlas and my SME 312 arm gives some “needle talk” - music heard when with everything muted you put your hear next to the stylus on the record. Doing it, I heard the same rumble distortion that was being amplified by the system. 

 

I used distilled water (not a new one but one which was opened for the previous machine) but it was clear clean. I put the exact amount of surfactant liquid on the mixture of distilled water. I kept all the operating instruction rules. I don’t understand what is wrong, but the fact is this machines damages the grooves on the record. 

 

Does anyone had this problem before? Any help provided?

 

Note: I already contacted the dealer who sold it  and I am going to see him next week. It is a very good a solid dealer.  It I’d like to hear your opinion. 

 

Best regards,

128x128pfmaudio
pindac's avatar
pindac
2,864 posts
 

I make no secret of the Label I now give my manually cleaned records using the PAVCR Manual Cleaning Method, as being Purified as the end product after the cleaning process.

I attribute 90%+ to this end result as being the Mixture for a Cleaning Solution that Neil Antin carefully calculates.

In posts in other threads, I have made it known I bought in extra ancillaries to enable myself to produce the Solutions to be used to a very accurate ratio for the mixture.

The mixture ratio for the cleaning solution are critical, the tools are aids to optimise the impact of the solution on the material being cleaned.

The following can be challenged quite outwardly with rebuttal. 

How many US Tanks have been filled / are filled / to be filled, with Solutions that are with ratio's for the mixture of the Cleaning Solution, that does not enable the Solution to perform to the necessary requirements ?

It does seem Cavitation used for Cleaning is optimised when manifesting in a particular solution?

It does seem Cavitation manifesting in a non-optimised solution, does not have the cleaning capability to effectively stop cleaning solution residual forming in the LP Groove, to the point the presence of the residual is audible?   

   

merland100
12 posts
 

If the machine in question is a Humminguru, there was a YouTube video I watched where the Humminguru was used to clean an album over 20 times, and there was significant damage.  The other record cleaner (might have been a Degritter) did not cause such damage even after so many cleanings.  One line of thinking is that the lower frequency US machines are potentially not as gentle to the vinyl as the higher frequency machines, and ones that have the transducers located very closely to the vinyl are potentially more damaging, and there are machines that oscillate across multiple frequencies like the AudioDesk that should be safer.  I also saw an US piece that described how the technology could, if not implemented properly, damage the vinyl by removing particles and this was proven in testing.   I was going to go with the Humminguru to replace my AudioDesk until I saw that YouTube review and starting be concerned about my valuable collection (some of which are irreplaceable) being damaged.  I liked what I heard regarding the AudioDesk upgrades to the pump, refined US approach, etc. and got one at a substantial discount from Ultra Systems even though the one that broke was 9 years old and that unit was one that replace a machine that I had bought 3 years prior.  I thought the new replacement unit price and upgrades made for a reasonable deal, and it would be better to pay more and protect my collection than going with an US machine that is a newer design, as much as I was intrigued by the Humminguru concept, positive reviews, and relatively affordable purchase price.  I figure if the AudioDesk lasts several years, prior to replacing again, the cost per month and utility will be justified.  Hopefully we get confirmation of the unit in question that is damaging vinyl.

jmarini2's avatar
jmarini2
56 posts
 

I'll stick with my SpinClean, thank you.

pindac's avatar
pindac
2,864 posts
 

It is seemingly the Solution used for cleaning that is the key to the end result being able to substantially impress or not, tools used are merely tools being used.

If I were to change a Cleaning Solution it would be one identified by Neil Antin or someone with Neil Antin credentials, offering the Mixture Ratio for the selected substances.

My days of producing a drip or two of this, splurge of that, diluted with this, to produce a potion where info is supplied from a variety of sources, even the manufacturers. When there is no real understanding of the qualities that are on offer from what is produced, are very much over. 

I strongly suggest anybody putting their faith in the Tools and not the cleaning solution, have a rethink, and discover the mixture / solution that really does benefit the cleaning process.  

antinn
395 posts
 

@pfmaudio 

The damage may not be permanent.  Some cleaning solution residue can be very difficult to remove.  HG provides very little detail on the what is in the cleaner other the standard market speak - HumminGuru The Small Bottle | Ultrasonic Vinyl Record Cleaning Agent.   Also, distilled water DIW that is a year old can have very high total dissolved solids (TDS) and can go acidic.  DIW absorbs CO2 which then forms carbonic acid leading to lower pH and higher TDS.  It all depends on how much air it and for how long it was exposed.

I would not yet give up hope.   Try recleaning one more time with fresh DIW and if you are in the USA, my go to simple nonionic surfactant is Tergitol 15-S-9 you can purchase here Tergitol 15-S-3 and 15-S-9 Surfactant | TALAS (talasonline.com).  One-pint will last you forever, and disregard DOWs 2-yr shelf life, I have Tergitol 15-S-9 that is 5-yrs old and is fine.  Just store in a cool dark place.  For use, download the latest version (3.1) of this book Precision Aqueous Cleaning of Vinyl Records-3rd Edition - The Vinyl Press and look at Table XXIII, Nalgene™ Dropper Bottle Use for Degritter™ & Humminguru™ for directions on use.

For those in the UK & EU, Polysorbate 20 is an alternative you can generally purchase which the book addresses.   

Good Luck,

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