300B or 2a3 SET Class A for Heretic Model A?

To me this is also a specious point, the idea of accuracy in recorded reproduction. I’m looking for something I like. I don’t want a stereo limited by only sounding good with any particular music or record label. It’s not about accuracy, to me accuracy is anti musical. I want the music I listen to- to be engaging. Accurate is irrelevant, in fact I don’t think it exists. Perhaps an extreme view point. You get into set amps because you want to experience the music not judge the recording.

@yaluaka It appears to me that you are conflating ’accurate’ with ’anti musical’ as emphasized above. That isn’t how its supposed to work; if the amp isn’t musical its also isn’t accurate. IOW if you want the most engaging presentation, the amp will be both musical and accurate. That exists. When the amp is musical but not accurate (as is the case with most SETs) then while it might be engaging, its not as engaging as it could be, because you’re really not hearing the music properly.

For some decades now the solid state community has beat up on tubes by saying that solid state is more accurate. But most of the time those amps were not musical because they made distortion to which the ear is keenly attuned. So those amps had ’low distortion’ but sounded harsh and bright- not at all engaging.

As a designer, once you understand how the ear perceives sound and how that relates to distortion amps make, you can design an amplifier that is both accurate and musically engaging. If you really understand how this works, it doesn’t even have to be a tube amp; the ’sonic signature’ of any amplifier is also its distortion signature. So if you can get a solid state amp to have the same sort of distortion as a tube amp, it will sound like a tube amp. That’s only one of the implications of understanding how this all works.

Put yet another way, there are tube amps that are more engaging than the best SETs, with wider bandwidth (read: more and deeper bass impact) and greater power at the same time.

Its not about judging the recording so much as it is enjoying the music. We’re on the same page with that. It sounds to me as if you’ve been exposed to too many amusical amps that were purported as ’accurate’ when they were not. Harsh and bright to me a far more egregious coloration than the ever-lovin’ 2nd harmonic of tube amps. But if you can get that 2nd harmonic down, you can get more detail, since distortion obscures detail. And you can do this without it being bright.

Again I feel you are missing my point. I am assuming you make amps, funnily enough I make records. So what I care about is musical engagement, this really has nothing to do with accuracy. Why I feel accuracy is anti musical is because you are focused on accuracy. That is not where I am focused. If the amp is accurate and I like the way it sounds great. If it's not accurate (I still really do not believe in this term but I'll use it for this discussion) and I like the way it sounds great as well. The accuracy part is the least of my worries, and for me doesn't enter into the discussion. Just the fact you posit - most single ended triode amps (SET) are not accurate - right then then and there tells me you are not focused on what is important to me, which is how the music sounds. I've learned through making records that distortion is often a musical attribute. I know people don't feel that is the case in the hifi world, but try to get an Al Jackson on Hi Records drum sound without it.

And as for me being exposed to to many amusical amps, I have actually instead been exposed to too many amusical audio fans 😂

@yaluaka I am very focused on the sound; if its right then the music is processed by the limbic portions of the brain which increases body movement and emotional response. Increased engagement.

I run a recording studio as well as manufacture amps and preamps. When the system is accurate it is also musical and engaging. IOW 'accurate' and 'musical' are not two different things. They are the same thing.

If you think otherwise it is because you've only encountered equipment that was claimed to be 'accurate' but was not (and was amusical; far too much of that out there) similarly the 'musical' equipment you've heard apparently was not as musical as is possible because it could not also be true to the music (accurate) at the same time.

Now I get that you can use R2R tape to warm up a digital recording (because it adds a 3rd harmonic) or run it through a single-ended tube circuit to add a 2nd harmonic; I understand how distortion affects our perception of musical (keeping in mind that understanding that is important for the design side of my work).

What I'm saying here is the distortion signature of any amp is paramount to how it sounds- the distortion signature is its sonic signature. So obviously the distortion signature must be as benign as possible (lower ordered harmonics dominant as seen in an SET or our class D or our OTLs) but also as low as possible so the equipment can reproduce low level detail properly.

Amazing community this is!

Sorry for late reply, dunno why gmail put all in the SPAM.

First of all, thanks to U for the kind responses, I have been checking your proposal and also did my own research and would like to add few mores:

Acoustic Plan Aruna 300B.

El Mago 300B.

Audion Silver Knight 300B (many options not clear to me).

Uchida A23 

Allnic T-1500 MKII (sounds like a classical SET or more “modern”?).

Also very intrigued by PX25, what kind of sound and power delivers?

Due to the good impedance and DB of my new speakers, how would compare a proper SET 300B Class A to small EL84/34 based tube integrated such as Leben CS-300Xs, Luxman SQ-N150, Mastersound Dueundici, etc.

One which I loved in my researching was Thöress brand, with a F2a11… never bearded bout this tubes.

Pretty interesting that Elekit and cheap! Would be up to the task in the magic the other can deliver? Sunaudio is the same concept?

Cheers!

Due to the good impedance and DB of my new speakers, how would compare a proper SET 300B Class A to small EL84/34 based tube integrated such as Leben CS-300Xs, Luxman SQ-N150, Mastersound Dueundici, etc.

@superelmar That will depend on how well the designers understand how distortion affects what we perceive. You'll have to try them and see. But if the EL84 amp is properly designed and built then I would not expect a downside compared to an SET. The tricky bit is if you mix single-ended circuits with PP in an amplifier, you get some distortions (in particular the 5th harmonic) which I have no doubt is part of the reason SET advocates are so staunchly loyal to their SETs.

That can be avoided by insuring that the PP design is fully balanced from input to output. In this way the 5th harmonic enhancement is avoided so the amp sounds smoother and more involving. Fully balanced PP amps are rare FWIW as so many 'designers' simply use legacy circuits from 1950s textbooks or prior designs, so have the same flaws baked in.  To keep the playing field level the PP amp should also be class A.