Some thoughts on ASR and the reviews


I’ve briefly taken a look at some online reviews for budget Tekton speakers from ASR and Youtube. Both are based on Klippel quasi-anechoic measurements to achieve "in-room" simulations.

As an amateur speaker designer, and lover of graphs and data I have some thoughts. I mostly hope this helps the entire A’gon community get a little more perspective into how a speaker builder would think about the data.

Of course, I’ve only skimmed the data I’ve seen, I’m no expert, and have no eyes or ears on actual Tekton speakers. Please take this as purely an academic exercise based on limited and incomplete knowledge.

1. Speaker pricing.

One ASR review spends an amazing amount of time and effort analyzing the ~$800 US Tekton M-Lore. That price compares very favorably with a full Seas A26 kit from Madisound, around $1,700. I mean, not sure these inexpensive speakers deserve quite the nit-picking done here.

2. Measuring mid-woofers is hard.

The standard practice for analyzing speakers is called "quasi-anechoic." That is, we pretend to do so in a room free of reflections or boundaries. You do this with very close measurements (within 1/2") of the components, blended together. There are a couple of ways this can be incomplete though.

a - Midwoofers measure much worse this way than in a truly anechoic room. The 7" Scanspeak Revelators are good examples of this. The close mic response is deceptively bad but the 1m in-room measurements smooth out a lot of problems. If you took the close-mic measurements (as seen in the spec sheet) as correct you’d make the wrong crossover.

b - Baffle step - As popularized and researched by the late, great Jeff Bagby, the effects of the baffle on the output need to be included in any whole speaker/room simulation, which of course also means the speaker should have this built in when it is not a near-wall speaker. I don’t know enough about the Klippel simulation, but if this is not included you’ll get a bass-lite expereinced compared to real life. The effects of baffle compensation is to have more bass, but an overall lower sensitivity rating.

For both of those reasons, an actual in-room measurement is critical to assessing actual speaker behavior. We may not all have the same room, but this is a great way to see the actual mid-woofer response as well as the effects of any baffle step compensation.

Looking at the quasi anechoic measurements done by ASR and Erin it _seems_ that these speakers are not compensated, which may be OK if close-wall placement is expected.

In either event, you really want to see the actual in-room response, not just the simulated response before passing judgement. If I had to critique based strictly on the measurements and simulations, I’d 100% wonder if a better design wouldn’t be to trade sensitivity for more bass, and the in-room response would tell me that.

3. Crossover point and dispersion

One of the most important choices a speaker designer has is picking the -3 or -6 dB point for the high and low pass filters. A lot of things have to be balanced and traded off, including cost of crossover parts.

Both of the reviews, above, seem to imply a crossover point that is too high for a smooth transition from the woofer to the tweeters. No speaker can avoid rolling off the treble as you go off-axis, but the best at this do so very evenly. This gives the best off-axis performance and offers up great imaging and wide sweet spots. You’d think this was a budget speaker problem, but it is not. Look at reviews for B&W’s D series speakers, and many Focal models as examples of expensive, well received speakers that don’t excel at this.

Speakers which DO typically excel here include Revel and Magico. This is by no means a story that you should buy Revel because B&W sucks, at all. Buy what you like. I’m just pointing out that this limited dispersion problem is not at all unique to Tekton. And in fact many other Tekton speakers don’t suffer this particular set of challenges.

In the case of the M-Lore, the tweeter has really amazingly good dynamic range. If I was the designer I’d definitely want to ask if I could lower the crossover 1 kHz, which would give up a little power handling but improve the off-axis response.  One big reason not to is crossover costs.  I may have to add more parts to flatten the tweeter response well enough to extend it's useful range.  In other words, a higher crossover point may hide tweeter deficiencies.  Again, Tekton is NOT alone if they did this calculus.

I’ve probably made a lot of omissions here, but I hope this helps readers think about speaker performance and costs in a more complete manner. The listening tests always matter more than the measurements, so finding reviewers with trustworthy ears is really more important than taste-makers who let the tools, which may not be properly used, judge the experience.

erik_squires

@amir_asr I see similarities with your repetitive appearances here and those of Tekton's owner Eric Alexander.  Not too long ago Eric came on this forum to defend his own and his products reputations.  He was warned many times that he was effectively shooting himself in the foot with his abrasive style and argumentative nature.  He eventually learned something and ceased his antics.  Eric I'm sure would admit that he was hurting himself and had become more self aware as a result of the advice given here. 

Amir, here is some advice to you.  Be quiet.  Look inside yourself.  Become self aware.  You are hurting yourself and your brand by making your inane repetitive statements here.  Like Eric, you are driving people away.  But you can't see that can you?  You simply can't overcome your elephantine ego.  You can do better, but you are unable to overcome your transparent self center.  It's okay to be wrong.  I'm embarassed for you.  Talk to someone you trust and who is able to speak the truth to you.  They will agree with what I've said.  You can do it. Sorry for my harshness. Peace and happiness. 

@kevn 

Please point out in the link where it says audio measurements are not able to keep up with the human ear:

@ricevs 

Thank you again for detailed answer.  On this statement:

If you research ALL the reviews on Topping D90s and all the reviews on the Tambaqui.....you will then be able to interpolate how they sound versus each other even if no one had them both together (with incredible accuracy). 

But you didn't research all of those reviews, correct? 

Let's say you had.  Wouldn't that then violate your statement that started this conversation?

YOU CANNOT KNOW WHAT SOMETHING SOUNDS LIKE WITHOUT LISTENING. 

You hadn't done this listening test yet you were confident to tell me:

You should have seriously listened to the Tambaqui when you had it there......would have blown your Topping to kindom come. 

Clearly you are going by some other factor other than your own listening test experience.  Isn't it logical to assume then that you don't need to always listen and you can use other evidence to make assessments of fidelity?

Everything makes a difference.

@ricevs, I am not clear if you are saying that the AC outlet cover makes a difference.  If so, seeing how these are cheap, did you go through listening tests to pick one?

Talk to someone you trust and who is able to speak the truth to you. 

@abnerjack , that is superb advice.  But say, did you run this post by someone you trust? 

@mahgister 

Have you considered professional help?

It is not kind, is it?  Doesn't reflect well on you, does it? Should you not have sent that to him in private even if merited?