Some thoughts on ASR and the reviews


I’ve briefly taken a look at some online reviews for budget Tekton speakers from ASR and Youtube. Both are based on Klippel quasi-anechoic measurements to achieve "in-room" simulations.

As an amateur speaker designer, and lover of graphs and data I have some thoughts. I mostly hope this helps the entire A’gon community get a little more perspective into how a speaker builder would think about the data.

Of course, I’ve only skimmed the data I’ve seen, I’m no expert, and have no eyes or ears on actual Tekton speakers. Please take this as purely an academic exercise based on limited and incomplete knowledge.

1. Speaker pricing.

One ASR review spends an amazing amount of time and effort analyzing the ~$800 US Tekton M-Lore. That price compares very favorably with a full Seas A26 kit from Madisound, around $1,700. I mean, not sure these inexpensive speakers deserve quite the nit-picking done here.

2. Measuring mid-woofers is hard.

The standard practice for analyzing speakers is called "quasi-anechoic." That is, we pretend to do so in a room free of reflections or boundaries. You do this with very close measurements (within 1/2") of the components, blended together. There are a couple of ways this can be incomplete though.

a - Midwoofers measure much worse this way than in a truly anechoic room. The 7" Scanspeak Revelators are good examples of this. The close mic response is deceptively bad but the 1m in-room measurements smooth out a lot of problems. If you took the close-mic measurements (as seen in the spec sheet) as correct you’d make the wrong crossover.

b - Baffle step - As popularized and researched by the late, great Jeff Bagby, the effects of the baffle on the output need to be included in any whole speaker/room simulation, which of course also means the speaker should have this built in when it is not a near-wall speaker. I don’t know enough about the Klippel simulation, but if this is not included you’ll get a bass-lite expereinced compared to real life. The effects of baffle compensation is to have more bass, but an overall lower sensitivity rating.

For both of those reasons, an actual in-room measurement is critical to assessing actual speaker behavior. We may not all have the same room, but this is a great way to see the actual mid-woofer response as well as the effects of any baffle step compensation.

Looking at the quasi anechoic measurements done by ASR and Erin it _seems_ that these speakers are not compensated, which may be OK if close-wall placement is expected.

In either event, you really want to see the actual in-room response, not just the simulated response before passing judgement. If I had to critique based strictly on the measurements and simulations, I’d 100% wonder if a better design wouldn’t be to trade sensitivity for more bass, and the in-room response would tell me that.

3. Crossover point and dispersion

One of the most important choices a speaker designer has is picking the -3 or -6 dB point for the high and low pass filters. A lot of things have to be balanced and traded off, including cost of crossover parts.

Both of the reviews, above, seem to imply a crossover point that is too high for a smooth transition from the woofer to the tweeters. No speaker can avoid rolling off the treble as you go off-axis, but the best at this do so very evenly. This gives the best off-axis performance and offers up great imaging and wide sweet spots. You’d think this was a budget speaker problem, but it is not. Look at reviews for B&W’s D series speakers, and many Focal models as examples of expensive, well received speakers that don’t excel at this.

Speakers which DO typically excel here include Revel and Magico. This is by no means a story that you should buy Revel because B&W sucks, at all. Buy what you like. I’m just pointing out that this limited dispersion problem is not at all unique to Tekton. And in fact many other Tekton speakers don’t suffer this particular set of challenges.

In the case of the M-Lore, the tweeter has really amazingly good dynamic range. If I was the designer I’d definitely want to ask if I could lower the crossover 1 kHz, which would give up a little power handling but improve the off-axis response.  One big reason not to is crossover costs.  I may have to add more parts to flatten the tweeter response well enough to extend it's useful range.  In other words, a higher crossover point may hide tweeter deficiencies.  Again, Tekton is NOT alone if they did this calculus.

I’ve probably made a lot of omissions here, but I hope this helps readers think about speaker performance and costs in a more complete manner. The listening tests always matter more than the measurements, so finding reviewers with trustworthy ears is really more important than taste-makers who let the tools, which may not be properly used, judge the experience.

erik_squires

Sonically, "State of the art" speakers need not be unreachable for dudes with thin wallets.

If you don’t mind the big n ugly, some sonic gems exist inside the relatively more expensive side of Pro Audio. To be fair, low aptitude extortion category "hifi speakers" can be ugly as hell too (look at wilson for example).

Guy’s started to tout the sterile class D again for low prices...You can get other better sounding topologies for lower prices too. For example, the Schiit Tyr can be endgame for all kinds of guys at around 3k. Sterile shrill class D + sterile Revel could launch you into a whole new level of sterile...you could quickly become a sterile ASR necromonger.

Somehow, i doubt the 100 dollar SMSL dac will clean the socks of some great dac implementations observed in technics, aavik, denafrips, mola mola, etc. But, i’m sure y’all will report back after you hear this 100 dollar miracle dac and start listing all your expensive dacs for sale.

@danager ,

Did you really order the 80 buck dac? I’m curious to see your reaction when you hear the thing… please keep us updated. I know you could never do a blind test that would suffice Amir but if you do a variant of that it would be curious. Amir told me my Pioneer S1ex were dynamic and had great bass cause the measurements said so. Then it was my room. Then he just stopped talking. Then he said dynamics was just how loud something could play. Then he said…….. well you get the point. 

Amir told me my Pioneer S1ex were dynamic and had great bass cause the measurements said so. 

What?  You said your speakers measure great.  I showed you that they did not remotely have such good measurements.  Your diagnostic of what is wrong with them is suspect but your bad experience matches not so great measurements.

Nope they do measure pretty well. You were talking about John’s measuements and how it must have been my room(s) and multiple amps I used. Do you believe dynamics is how loud a speaker can play?? Macro/micro? You ignored this last time? Also fast is a thing in a speaker whether or not you say it is or not. Can you measure dynamics?? Most important top 3 for a speaker? How do you measure that with your equipment? Enquiring minds want to know. 

Sterile shrill class D + sterile Revel could launch you into a whole new level of sterile...you could quickly become a sterile ASR necromonger.

Class D has never been sterile.  That reputation came from people judging products with their eyes and lack of engineering background than proper sound evaluation.

Class D amps have to have a post filter to get rid of the carrier frequency.  That filter will have a rising impedance with respect to frequency, causing it to interact with the speaker's impedance.  Result is that the high frequency response of the speaker would change, either tilted up or down, together with potential for ringing.  Note that tube amps that have high output impedance do the same thing except they do so across the spectrum. 

There were also non-linearities in class D amps due to dead time in switching transistors.

Then comes the genius Bruno Putzeys who designed the Hypex amplifiers some 10 to 15 years ago.  He put the output post filter into the feedback loop, and thereby nullifying its effect.  He also added more gain which allowed it to in turn have more feedback, linearizing the response to near state of the art.

Fast forward a decade and he partnered with Lars Risbo and Peter Lyngdorf and created Purifi amplifiers.  These worked to push distortion and noise even lower, bringing them very close to Benchmark AHB2 class G amplifier.

Purifi folks were kind enough to send me their very first review sample, the Purifi 1ET400A amplifier. 

This thing is compact and weighs like it too.  You can easily pick it up with one hand.  Check out how low the distortion is:

 

It is also incredibly quiet although there are a couple of other amps that are even better:

 

It is not super powerful but still:

 

I know, I know... You don't care about measurements.  So let's look at reviews of this amplifier covered by a site that caters to you all: Soundstage Hifi: 

"I began evaluating the Eigentakt when I used it in May to review the Magico A1 minimonitors ($7400/pair). Before hooking up the Eigentakt, I’d been using a pair of Constellation Audio Revelation Taurus monoblocks -- massive amps that cost $40,000/pair, are specified to each output up to 500W into 8 ohms or 1000W into 4 ohms, and sound outstanding. "

[...]

"I found that the Eigentakt was not only powerful enough to drive the A1s -- it sounded as good as the Constellations. As I wrote in my review, “almost nothing about the A1s’ sound had changed -- the tonal balance was the same, the highs were just as extended and the midrange just as pure, voices were equally robust, bass just as extended, and the soundstaging and imaging were exactly as before.” What’s more, I also thought that if there were any differences in the sounds, they “were at best slight and, surprisingly, favored the Purifi.” 

On noise level he says:

"Nor did the Eigentakt functionally disappoint. When I first turned it on, by flicking the main power switch on its backside and pressing Standby on the front panel, I heard no trace of noise or hum from the speakers. The ring around the Standby button glowed red, but still I wondered if the power was on. I held one ear close to the tweeter of one A1 and heard only a faint hiss. At that point, the EMM Labs DAC and preamp were also in circuit and powered up -- when I turned them off, the hiss got even fainter. I had to put my ear almost on the tweeter to hear anything at all. The Eigentakt is one quiet amp."

Precisely as measurements predicted.

He gets a second opinion:

"

After completing my review of the Magico A1, I traveled to the UK to shoot some videos for our YouTube channel, and lent the review sample of the Eigentakt to fellow reviewer Diego Estan, who hooked it up to his McIntosh Laboratory C47 preamp-DAC ($4500). Diego had exactly the same experience I had. When he first powered up the Purifi and Mac, he was startled to hear only a faint hiss from the tweeter of one of his Focal Sopra No1 speakers -- a hiss that grew fainter still when he switched off the preamp. Diego admires superquiet components -- he really liked that aspect of the Eigentakt.

He then compared the Eigentakt to his McIntosh MC302 stereo power amp ($5500, 300Wpc into 8, 4, or 2 ohms), and found them sonically indistinguishable -- their tonal balances were identical, and he didn’t think he heard any more or less detail with either."

He concludes thusly:

"I was bowled over by the Purifi Eigentakt’s sound and operation. It turned on silently, made almost no noise, provided more than enough power while generating hardly any heat, and passed music through so transparently, at volume levels from low to high, that it left me in near disbelief that so small a box could accomplish so much. Diego Estan had the same experience. In fact, I like the Eigentakt so much that I want to keep it here permanently, to review speakers with and to compare with other amps, particularly those based on Purifi 1ET400A modules. It will be interesting to hear if any of the latter improve on the Eigentakt’s sound."

So objective and subjectively your comments are wrong.  Class D amplifiers that I recommend are superb.  Absolutely superb.  They not only sound great, they don't heat up your house, don't break your back carrying them, and don't take much space in your system.  With a number of companies packaging them in nice boxes and selling direct, they easily put many high-end amplifiers to shame across the board.