Some thoughts on ASR and the reviews

Almost all the review magazines, almost all high end manufacturers, 90% of all Audiophiles, 90% of those on this forum, 90% of manufacturers showing at high end audio shows, etc. etc. into infinity do sighted A/Bs of equipment and generally come to the same conclusions......without talking to each other.  For instance, almost all the reviews of the Topping gear say it is very detailed but lacking in soul, ambience, subtly, macro dynamics, imaging, decay, etc.  They all came to this on their own.  They agree.  AND THEY LISTENED.

There have been people who believe like Amir for a long, long time.  He just made the game more real for some by adding a measurement machine to make it look like there is some truth to that point of view.  As, I have stated over and over again....there is no proof that if a DAC, preamp or amp measures a certain level of SINAD......that it is SONICALLY TRANPARENT.  Never been tested......never. Amir made this up in his mind....It is a fantasy....that he speaks as THE TRUTH........and only believed by those that are super nerdy, cynical and angry at the high end pricing and have little money.   

So, you have a quarter million audiophiles, engineers, designers, and customers, etc. from all over the world saying that they hear differences in all DACS, preamps, amps and cables (using sighted a/bs)......and on the other hand you have this rogue dude saying that HUMANS are flawed and cannot make a correct decision in listening without double blind listening tests......and of course, Amir and his crew do NO listening tests......They would be afraid to do sighted tests with a bunch of people in a room.  If they said that there was no difference and the other 10 all heard a certain difference then they would spread the word all over the net that Amir cannot hear.  If Amir agreed with their test results (hears the same difference) then his whole world would collapse into ego hell.  His whole purpose would be wiped out.....his website would have to be taken down for he has now joined "the dark side"......which is really where he lives already.  He is in the dark.....afraid of the llght.  He has no proof.....none.   

Those of us that hear a difference in everything do not need to prove it to anyone  We know what we hear is real.....we hear it....We trust what we hear......What we do is common knowledge.....almost every magazine from around the world does this......they compare and state what they hear.  THEY TRUST THEMSELVES......Amir trusts no one.  Especially himself.....otherwise he would try sighted tests of stuff.  But he made up his mind years ago about this SINAD silliness and is going to defend it to his grave (more than likely).  However, it is very sad that he limits himself to OK sounding gear.....but does not want to go for the big goosebumps.  You will not get big goosebumps with Topping...(well, maybe with enought drinks in you....he he).

Here is a cool true story.  I had a woman employee that was soldering my Ultimate Attenuators while I was tweaking my stereo (modded Quad Electrostats, etc.).  I was adding pieces of Navcom to some of the digital chips in my NEC cd player to make those nasty digits behave.  The more Navcom I added the warmer the sound.  This lady had her left ear towards the stereo and commented that when I added them it got warmer......so, I think to myself.....well, she certainly can hear.  So, after she was done working I had her sit in the "seat" and told her to concentrate on the sound of the cymbals......nothing else.  BTW this woman had never ever listened to a high end stereo.   I then went into the bedroom and did something and told her to listen again.....after the track was done I asked here if she heard any difference.  She told me that the second time through the cymbals were more pure and real sounding......I then told here what I did.....which was.......I unplugged my LED digital clock that was next to my bed.  There was only one circuit in that apartment so anything you did to the AC was heard loud and clear.  She heard IT.  Not a golden eared super trained listener.....a complete novice.....a virgin of stereo could hear the difference.  What I just stated will make Amir go into complete freak out mode.....I cannot wait for his response.

Here is a couple of guys who are doing sighted and BLIND a/bs and are also doing measurement tests to see if there is some correlation to what they hear.  This is way more scientific than what Amir does.....but they claim they are doing "no science".......they are humble.....they just listen and test every way they can.  Here is a session where they listen to plug in line filters and one of the guys is blind and the other is not and they basically agree on the differences.....and they already had measured these things on the bench......pretty interesting.  I wish you all the most ginormous goosebumps ever.

 

the whole concept of stereo is an illusion.

The whole concept of stereo, a fossilized old technology is just dumb!

The whole concept of object based audio...or even a dumbed down something called BACCH that hasn’t been picked up by everyone is just a mind boggling denial of technological advancement and audio nirvana.

This brief transient lifespan is about exploring/experiencing new things (one would think), but, not when it comes to "purist audiophilia"... pure and goofy till the brief lifespan comes to an end, i suppose.

@amir_asr  just like some of the measurements don't matter the way you think they do. I used to think the great measuring equipment was best until I heard the sound of a tube system.

Here is a couple of guys who are doing sighted and BLIND a/bs and are also doing measurement tests to see if there is some correlation to what they hear.  

Careful.  Every one of their measurement videos I have watched make fundamental mistakes in conclusions they draw.  I addressed one of them about network switches in this thread.  You need to be careful to not leap from some measurable effect, to the output of your audio device changing.  I post this video there to demonstrate how what they say doesn't apply to output of your audio system:

 

but they claim they are doing "no science".......they are humble.....they just listen and test every way they can.

I don't know them personally.  But do know that they impress lay audiophiles by the look of their measurement gear while not understanding at all what they are measuring.  Same folks who fight me tooth and nail on measurements, all of a sudden become a fan of their measurements!  

Their listening tests do NOT follow proper protocols.  Just running a test blind doesn't mean you are generating good data.  That is but one component of proper testing.

Finally, testing audio gear is not "doing science."  It is just measurements.  Understanding the measurement data as far as audibility invokes science but again, is not doing science. Same with properly doing audio listening tests.  Your doctor is not doing science either by following it to treat you.

For instance, almost all the reviews of the Topping gear say it is very detailed but lacking in soul, ambience, subtly, macro dynamics, imaging, decay, etc.  They all came to this on their own.  They agree.  AND THEY LISTENED.

Quick look at traditional press reviews on Topping easily invalidates your claim.  Check out KR's review of Topping DM-7 multichannel DAC in Stereophile magazine.

"On first hearing with the DM7, I was almost certain my streamer had swerved and served up something from a different album when, after a half-dozen instrumental tracks, Ms. Perbost simply appeared in my room just left of center. "

[...]

"I also tried the DM7 with older favorites, and it didn't disappoint. It fully revealed the spacious, warm acoustic and the fully present trio on The Elder (Polarity, Hoff Ensemble, rip from 2L 2L-145-SACD). Particularly notable here, and also on Justice, is the delineation and weight of the bass and drums. Willie Nelson's Night and Day, which is recorded with the band fully surrounding the listener, shows that the DM7 can create a convincing immersive experience. I hear instruments, discretely and realistically rendered, all around me, including in the wide spaces between the front and rear speakers in my 5.3 system."

"I came back to René Jacobs's rethinking of Der Freischütz (Harmonia Mundi HMM90270001, 2 CDs), which so impressed me when I reviewed the KEF Blade Metas. Heard now with the resident Revels and the Topping DM7 (in place of the exaSound s88), it was no less impressive. The clear and varied voices are well-defined within a soundstage that's wide and deep, and the effects are convincing. In the Wolf's Glen scene, the space and chorus expand in size, including height, and the orchestra is convincingly spooky and dramatic. From just two channels, the DM7 conveys the full sense of the theatrical events with a perfect integration of pit and stage."

JA had this to say about its objective performance:

"The Topping DM7's measured performance is superb, even without taking its affordable price into account.—John Atkinson"

Here is Absolute Sound Review by Steve Stone of Topping D90SE, directly contradicting your claim:

"Sound

This is the section where I’m sure a number of readers are hoping that I discover that the D90SE, despite its wonderous specifications, sounds just OK. Sorry, but that was not the case. What I heard was reference-level digital reproduction without any sonic bromides. If the absence of coloration, individualistic character, or “house sound” was the goal, the D90SE has clearly achieved it. During my listening time with the D90SE I was never able to identify anything I would characterize as deviations from tonal neutrality. To my ears, the D90SE is very much in the “straight no chaser” school of DACs, like Benchmark or Bryston. If you need a more euphonic sonic output, the D90SE will not help you get to that place.

Since I have quite a number of recordings that I made of live performances of classical orchestras, chamber groups, Bluegrass ensembles, and solo recitals, I have a complete set of listening tools that I know well. Also, I know what the recording chain was, and what the various sonic “tells” are on different recordings. Throughout my listening sessions using my own material, I was continually encouraged to hear that the D90SE neither added nor subtracted from the spatial, textural, or rhythmic character of the performances. One of the unique recordings I have is one that I made at the Rockygrass Academy several years ago of Chris Thile playing and commenting on my then recently acquired 1930 Gibson F-5 mandolin. The D90SE did a superlative job of retaining all the harmonic characteristics of both Chris’ voice and my mandolin. [Steven is a noted expert on guitars and mandolins, and is a long-time contributor to Vintage Guitar magazine. —RH] 

As usual when I listen, I’m primarily listening for faults rather than for whether a particular recording sounds more real on one piece of gear than another. But one performance arena where the D90SE ranks as “jaw-dropping” is its silence. In a properly configured system with no additive noise such as low-level hums or buzzes, listening through the D90SE will deliver the “blackest blacks” (if you wish to define signal-to-noise in terms of colors) you will hear from any DAC. In a system where I can place my ear within an inch of my loudspeaker’s drivers, I heard nothing, not even a hiss; when I switched from the D90SE as an input source to a shorted input source, there was absolutely no difference in base noise levels. On many commercial recordings the difference between the absolute silence of the D90SE and the base-level “silence” of the recording was noticeable, always in favor of the D90SE. If your sonic goal is to cobble together the quietest, most noise-free system possible, the D90SE ranks as a first-call player."

He goes to do an AB test against another DAC and reports:

"After multiple listening sessions I was forced to conclude that I could not tell any sonic difference between the sound of the Topping D90SE and the Gustard X-16. Both offer a clear view of the musical event without any house-sound or euphonic colorations. Both produced the same imaging characteristics in terms of depth, width, image focus, and dynamic acuity. Hard as I tried, I could not discern any sonic differences I could regularly identify."

And this in conclusion:

"I will admit that when considering the Topping D90SE it’s hard not to scream: “ENDGAME DAC!” And begin jumping around a la Tom Cruise in Risky Business. But since I am, first and foremost a fully grown old gent, I won’t give in to this vile temptation. But I will go on the record that if a neutral, high-resolution, modern, well-configured DAC that sounds as true to source material as any I’ve ever heard is something you are seeking, the D90SE could easily qualify as your new reference DAC."

Stereophile and Absolute Sound are the top two magazines when it comes to high--end audio.  Both massively contradict your claim. Both rave about qualities you claim Topping doesn't have.

I will quote one more from Secrets of High Fidelity.

"A nice selection of music to listen to via headphones and draw by. Routing the D90SE’s analog out to my STAX headphone amp and earspeakers, I was treated to a stone quiet background from which John Williams, Yo-Yo Ma, and the New York Philharmonic worked. The details in Yo-Yo Ma’s playing throughout “The Concerto for Cello and Orchestra” were frankly astonishing. There was no hint of etch or harshness in the sound of any of the strings, horns, or background percussion. The Topping provided everything my electrostatic headphones and amp needed for them to do their effortless magic with this music. Ma’s and the Philharmonic’s rendition of “the theme from Schindler’s List” simply gave me chills. Sublime stuff this.

I need to thank fellow reviewer Gene Hopstetter for turning me on to this album. A beautiful recording of a piano sensitively played. Again the Topping D90SE did nothing to enhance, detract, or editorialize the glorious spacious piano notes that came forth from this performance. The dynamics from the piano seemed completely natural and unencumbered. “Etude n.6” was just a powerhouse tour de force that sounded huge, whether I used the D90SE with my STAX headphones or in my main system with speakers. Transparent in the extreme."

He concludes thusly:

"I’m finding it very difficult to find fault with the Topping D90SE DAC. It is well made, has superb measured performance, sounds as transparent and devoid of coloration as any other DAC that I have come across, and it won’t cost you an arm and a leg."

[...]

"The Topping D90SE is a DAC for listeners who want nothing to get in between them and their music. It reveals all without adding anything that shouldn’t be there. It is very much the ultimate textbook DAC that almost anyone can afford. Highly Recommended."