Some thoughts on ASR and the reviews
I’ve briefly taken a look at some online reviews for budget Tekton speakers from ASR and Youtube. Both are based on Klippel quasi-anechoic measurements to achieve "in-room" simulations.
As an amateur speaker designer, and lover of graphs and data I have some thoughts. I mostly hope this helps the entire A’gon community get a little more perspective into how a speaker builder would think about the data.
Of course, I’ve only skimmed the data I’ve seen, I’m no expert, and have no eyes or ears on actual Tekton speakers. Please take this as purely an academic exercise based on limited and incomplete knowledge.
1. Speaker pricing.
One ASR review spends an amazing amount of time and effort analyzing the ~$800 US Tekton M-Lore. That price compares very favorably with a full Seas A26 kit from Madisound, around $1,700. I mean, not sure these inexpensive speakers deserve quite the nit-picking done here.
2. Measuring mid-woofers is hard.
The standard practice for analyzing speakers is called "quasi-anechoic." That is, we pretend to do so in a room free of reflections or boundaries. You do this with very close measurements (within 1/2") of the components, blended together. There are a couple of ways this can be incomplete though.
a - Midwoofers measure much worse this way than in a truly anechoic room. The 7" Scanspeak Revelators are good examples of this. The close mic response is deceptively bad but the 1m in-room measurements smooth out a lot of problems. If you took the close-mic measurements (as seen in the spec sheet) as correct you’d make the wrong crossover.
b - Baffle step - As popularized and researched by the late, great Jeff Bagby, the effects of the baffle on the output need to be included in any whole speaker/room simulation, which of course also means the speaker should have this built in when it is not a near-wall speaker. I don’t know enough about the Klippel simulation, but if this is not included you’ll get a bass-lite expereinced compared to real life. The effects of baffle compensation is to have more bass, but an overall lower sensitivity rating.
For both of those reasons, an actual in-room measurement is critical to assessing actual speaker behavior. We may not all have the same room, but this is a great way to see the actual mid-woofer response as well as the effects of any baffle step compensation.
Looking at the quasi anechoic measurements done by ASR and Erin it _seems_ that these speakers are not compensated, which may be OK if close-wall placement is expected.
In either event, you really want to see the actual in-room response, not just the simulated response before passing judgement. If I had to critique based strictly on the measurements and simulations, I’d 100% wonder if a better design wouldn’t be to trade sensitivity for more bass, and the in-room response would tell me that.
3. Crossover point and dispersion
One of the most important choices a speaker designer has is picking the -3 or -6 dB point for the high and low pass filters. A lot of things have to be balanced and traded off, including cost of crossover parts.
Both of the reviews, above, seem to imply a crossover point that is too high for a smooth transition from the woofer to the tweeters. No speaker can avoid rolling off the treble as you go off-axis, but the best at this do so very evenly. This gives the best off-axis performance and offers up great imaging and wide sweet spots. You’d think this was a budget speaker problem, but it is not. Look at reviews for B&W’s D series speakers, and many Focal models as examples of expensive, well received speakers that don’t excel at this.
Speakers which DO typically excel here include Revel and Magico. This is by no means a story that you should buy Revel because B&W sucks, at all. Buy what you like. I’m just pointing out that this limited dispersion problem is not at all unique to Tekton. And in fact many other Tekton speakers don’t suffer this particular set of challenges.
In the case of the M-Lore, the tweeter has really amazingly good dynamic range. If I was the designer I’d definitely want to ask if I could lower the crossover 1 kHz, which would give up a little power handling but improve the off-axis response. One big reason not to is crossover costs. I may have to add more parts to flatten the tweeter response well enough to extend it's useful range. In other words, a higher crossover point may hide tweeter deficiencies. Again, Tekton is NOT alone if they did this calculus.
I’ve probably made a lot of omissions here, but I hope this helps readers think about speaker performance and costs in a more complete manner. The listening tests always matter more than the measurements, so finding reviewers with trustworthy ears is really more important than taste-makers who let the tools, which may not be properly used, judge the experience.
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Is that why MikeL and the two people with him couldn't tell his MIT Oracle cable from Monster in blind testing? Granted, half a million dollars is not a lot of money to spend on an audio system. How much should he have spent to hear that difference with ears alone??? |
Hey! Not all sh!t smells bad. Here is the scent of my speakers: "The Salon2 demonstrated jaw-dropping dynamics in my listening room. I heard no grain or compression until the amplifier ran out of steam. The Salon2 played synthesizer and bass-drum crescendos so well that I kept cranking up the volume.....The Ultima Salon2 remained in complete control, falling silent after each percussion note. Cymbals sounded startlingly clear, utterly transparent, and sweet....The Salon2s had a spatial precision that I normally associate only with my Quad ESL-989 electrostatic speakers. Nor was the Revel's ability to deliver large, even amounts of sonic power into my listening room done at the expense of the most subtle musical details. the Revel Ultima Salon2 is the best-performing, most natural-sounding full-range loudspeaker I have auditioned in my listening room since I started writing for Stereophile in 1984. ..... The Revel design team has smoothed the Salon1's upper midrange while retaining that award-winning speaker's powerful bass extension, timbral accuracy, and superb dynamics. The result is an open and transparent top end, an utterly neutral and grain-free midrange, and bass that is extended and pitch-perfect. The Ultima Salon2 does all this while sounding completely neutral, with top-to-bottom smoothness, coherence, and remarkable resolution of detail." "Conclusion No loudspeaker is perfect, but Revel’s Ultima Salon2 is the closest I’ve found. Its bass and high-frequency performance are beyond reproach, and its midrange deserves high praise for its neutrality, transparency, and speed. Some might wish for a little more of the midrange richness of, say, the Magico V2, but this would be more about desiring a certain type of sound rather than indicating any deficiency in the Salon2. From top to bottom, The Salon2 is an ultraprecise, remarkably refined, full-range transducer that delivers nothing short of state-of-the-art sound while making fewer compromises than any other speaker I’ve heard." I am quoting sources that are in your camp. Do tell: what is "sh!t" about my speakers? |
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@ricevs - Something I found interesting is that I actually tried a SMSL SU-9 PRO, Topping D90 III and VMW (SMSL) D2se2. They measure very, very similarly in Amir's tests. You'd think they sound exactly alike, right? Not a chance... The SU-9 PRO has a very sharp edge (to the point I got a headache when first listening) and odd oscillation around instruments and some vocals, which made some parts of the soundstage fuzzy. The best measuring DAC, the Topping D90 III, was absolute poo. High frequencies on the D90 III sounded blunted which made everything sound flat and dull. The VWV is actually a decent DAC and I'd personally recommend it as a solid budget choice, but would never know it's the best choice based on Amir's testing alone. Another thing I found interesting is the ASR recommended PCM filter is Linear Fast. If you go on ASR or elsewhere, people will blindly recommend this setting, simply because of Amir's reviews. I found two things through my own testing... First, I was getting a speaker pop from the DAC cutting off highs when leaving the DAC on 0.0 dB, so I had to turn down the volume before turning off the volume setting. Second, Filter Off actually sounds best to me in my system, despite this being the setting that's not recommend. I did order a Laiv for fun, which is arriving this week. Hard to say without seeing schematics, but the PCBs seem to be designed very similarly to MSB's entry-level DAC with shorter R2R ladders. I wouldn't be surprised if that was its 'inspiration' and we eventually get a comparison saying the Laiv sounds very similar to a MSB Discrete (with 1 power supply and stock USB input). |
