speakers and cables


this is about me being a loser and problem creator.

I finally got a 2nd subwoofer and I was excited to hook it up. Well, not too excited. I knew it would be a pain to hook it up. I was excited to hear it. I spent over 90 minutes connecting the speaker wires to my power amp. When I turned it on, the left channel was gone. It blew the fuse. I disconnected everything, replaced the fuse, hooked it up again. It worked for 10 seconds, blew the fuse again.

The way I hooked them up was I went from the sub speaker out from both subwoofers, rolled the left and right side wires together so I had 4 wires that I connected to the left and right plus and minus channels - speaker binders on the power amp. What are my options? My preamp has no sub out. Nor my amp.

Stupid question: should I just go from left to left on one sub and right to right on the other sub?

grislybutter

@immatthewj

I also thought of this. I know it’s lame but fairly cheap and maybe by Christmas I can budget for it; it could be nice visuals and a speaker "multiplier". If it could handle it.
Douk Audio VU3 Dual Analog VU Meter, 2-Way Amplifier/Speaker Switch

Welllll, @griz . . . unless I am missing something, it appears as if it’s main function (besides providing the meters) is to give one the option of quickly switching between two amps and between two sets of speakers (simply by flipping a switch)? I suppose if that function would make your life easier. . . .

A lot of my preconceived notions (which I do keep an open mind about, and which are frequently debunked here) were formed when I started buying "better" gear back in ’94, and at that time I did not have a PC (and even after I did get a PC I didn’t start checking out audio forums until maybe around ’20), so these notions that I am referring to came from telephone conversations with manufacturer’s tech support people and . . . (wait for it) . . . reading Stereophile (Yuk). As I typed a few sentences ago, I do keep an open mind and I do read a lot of threads/posts here on A’gon and I try to digest and consider seriously a lot of what I read.

But that was a lot of typing to say that my notion about "purity of signal" was formed way back when, and after reading the arguments (for example) about speaker wire and interconnects (which I had always in the past thought that the benefits of were accepted and a given, and you can see that I was wrong--not universally accepted OR a given) I have no doubt that the "purity of signal" notion is wide open to debate. So wide open, in fact, that if it ever came up, I’d stay out of it--I’d read for a while, but I’d stay clear.

However, my theory has always been I’d rather keep stuff out of the signal path unless its benefits (whatever they might be) outweighed what I felt was the risk of degrading the signal.

I am going to type a bit more than I planned when I started: so I know that there is going to be an argument--"Put in in the signal path, and if you hear degradation then remove it; if you don’t hear degradation, you were wrong and it didn’t have an effect on anything." But I have never bragged about my hearing and I don’t think I hear stuff that way. For example, put a teeny tiny scratch or pit, one that may be nearly invisible, in my glasses and then give me a pair of identical glasses with flawless lens and ask me to do a blind (no pun intended) test. It would probably be a guessing game. But that doesn’t mean that there is no affect on my visibility that might become just a teeny bit noticeable on, for example, a ten hour road trip. Not so much noticeable that at the end of ten hour drive I’d be like, "OMG!! My left eye hurts and everything is blurry!" but just enough that my visual fatigue was a tiny bit worse than in might have been otherwise. And then throw in another tiny scratch and another tiny pit. . . .

Generally I hate analogies, but that was the best I way I could think of to illustrate part of my theory on listening and hearing. And someone will probably read this and comment on what a pile of crap my theories are, but that doesn’t usually bother me.

So back to putting stuff in the signal path: if it makes your life easier and being easier is not obvious audible degradation, I wouldn’t find fault in someone doing it.

The ’Y’ splitters, for example, make hooking your sub up way way easier and also allow you to go straight from your amp with your speaker wires, which in itself may outweigh any blemish they add to the signal. I honestly don’t know, but if it was me, I’d certainly be willing to try it.

As far as the high pass filter I went on and on ad nauseam about, a tech support guy suggested I try that. He explained the benefits of cleaning up the point where the sub integrates with the speaker, and also how the amp would appreciate not having to drive anything below 80 hZ and how the speakers would appreciate not being fed a signal below 80 hZ. I don’t remember being instantly amazed by the sub/speaker integration (it’s quite possible I didn’t know all what I was listening to back then) but what did strike me IMMEDIATELY was how much more dynamic things instantly became.

But then a dealer and also a different tech support guy (at different times) infected me with the "purity of signal" notion, and I had bought bigger amps that were more dynamic without the filter, and I had equipment with truly balanced circuits and using those precluded RCAs in the high pass filter . . . anyway, I went another route. But at the time I was using it, I believe that the benefits truly out weighed the possible degradation caused in the path by a "crappy box" with its poteniometers and extra pair of interconnects.

That took me way too many words to say that if it was me I’d be inclined not to put in that switching box that I started this reply out talking about . . . but it comes down to whether the possible negatives are outweighed by what it does to your own personal enjoyment of your system.

Oh well . . . Ramble On. . . .

@immatthewj

The short answer is I don’t know. I follow your train of thought and I believe in the shortest path and signal purity too. Electricity is a mystery to me though so I just believe what I read.

I think I have a compromised system (a nice way of saying "crappy") and using your analogy, it’s a glass with dirt on it, an extra layer of dirt won’t make a huge difference.

These passive components are essentially cables/cable connectors. The signal will degrade for sure, but maybe not much. In my system, the amp and the speakers make 90% of the difference (assuming my records are clean). I can hear the difference in the turntable but preamps, amps and speakers are 30% each. Cables, interconnects, electricity, vibration control, barely noticeable.

Having said that, everything counts, still:

inclined not to put in that switching box

I agree with that and you significantly reduced my desire for it, thank you!

Long story short, I enjoy and learn a lot from your comments. And despite my limitations, I love listening to my rig, it sounds awesome. It’s all relative....

Too bad @erik_squires has left the forum. This is an area where he could answer in his sleep.

I believe the correct way to wire it is not in parallel but in series.

Take the left speaker wire to the left input of your sub "speaker level input’ and then go from "speaker level output" to your speaker. same on the right.

Do not hook anything to the right speaker on the left sub and vice versa.

And I don't think you need a high pass filter, The sub has all it needs between the speaker level input and output.

Jerry

thank you @carlsbad2, I am a big fan of Erik but I had a lot of good advice and options so far including yours. Once my coffee kicks in, I will try and compare them. Wiring-wise yours is the least stressful.

Step one is to determine if the output of your amp is balanced or single end. If it is balanced the negative is not ground. If you don’t know the. The safest thing to do is connect the black to the chassis. If you have REL line subs then you need to combine the two positive wire to the right sub s x connect if to the right positive terminal. Then repeat this for the left. Black goes to chassis. This should work.