2. amps-preamps
  3. 190587-155863

Would like to try a tube preamp after years of solid state and hybrid

I would like to replace my Counterpoint SA-1000 preamp of which I am the original owner.  I have never been satisfied with it.  I bought it as a replacement for a Hafler DH-100 pre that I bought to go with a Hafler DH-220 amp.  (I still like the amp, more so after I recapped it and upgraded a few parts.)  I did a total recap of the Counterpoint and replaced some of the rca jacks, along with a few other small things, but still find it to sound congested and dull.  In my opinion, it didn’t live up to the positive reviews that it received when it was released, but it served well in a secondary system.  My primary system makes use of an Aragon 24k preamp and 4004 amp which I find to be an acceptable level of performance.  I am using all digital sources at the moment, a JVC XL-Z1050 cd player or MacBook Pro through a Weiss DAC204.  The speakers are B&W Cm1/CM2.  Yes, with the exception of the DAC, it is all from around the same vintage.  You might be able to guess, but I have chosen components which produce a clean and crisp sound.  I am at the point that I would like to experiment with a completely different sound in the form of an old school, or near old school, tube preamp.  

 

I have been doing as much research as I can, including many thoughts from the Audiogon community, and have narrowed my choices down to the following few that are available right now, but open to other suggestions as I’m not in any rush.  I’m not a super-critical listener, but I have music training and experience, so I know what instruments and performances sound like live.  My budget is $2,000 or less plus trade value for the Counterpoint, and my goals are to get something that sounds obviously like a tube component.  I would like to equal or exceed the performance of the 24k in case I like the tubes better.  A phono stage is not required, but welcome.  I don’t like designs that have exposed tubes or showy facades (McIntosh, Zesto, PrimaLuna, etc).  I would like to get some guidance from the forum members.  

 

Conrad-Johnson PV 5, PV 10, PV 11, or other

Audible Illusions Modulus L3 or M3

Cary SLP-70

VAC Standard LE

Joule Electra LA-150 (in spite of the fact that they are out of business)

Audio Research (although I can’t decipher which model to consider - LS7, LS17, LS25?)

 

If I choose something newer, perhaps Quicksilver, AVA, Modwright, or Brown Audio Lab, but these might not sound ad "tubey" as the older units.

 

I understand that the older preamps might require some amount of rehabilitation, some of which I can do.  Nothing is a sure bet, but I would appreciate your input.

 

Thanks for any input, and best wishes!

charliehorse
charliehorse OP
12 posts
 

Thanks @mesch, There has been a listing for a pv11, but I see a new one.  That model is on my short list, maybe the classic as well.  I will give that some serious thought.

cbrez
63 posts
 

My two cents for what they are worth. I sold Counterpoint way back and the thousand series preamps were good for the money, but got much better as you climbed the chain. The 1000 was decent and did sound good for the money, but the 2000/3000 was a good step up and the 5000 was a huge step beyond. I owned the 5000 and remember it being exceptional.

All that being said, I also owned a few of the CJ preamps as well. The PV10, PV11, PV12 had a wonderful full sound and were very musical. I am not familiar with The Classic, but if it has the signature of those earlier preamps, it will have that full tube sube sound.

Best of luck on your journey and have fun.

johnah5
235 posts
 

I second Aric Audio and LTA. I just got in for review the LTA Velo and it is a keeper. Much wider deeper and resolving soundstage without changing the tone of my amps. Love it. Had Aric Audio integrated amp and he knows how to build tube gear.

JH

lou_setriodes's avatar
lou_setriodes
687 posts
 

Charlie Horse - What I have not seen anyone ask here is this - What ICs do you use between amp and preamp?  A most critical question to ask, IMHO.

With over 40 years in this hobby, (including a few selling audio gear at retail), I have found that having silver ICs between amp and pre is a game changer.  In fact, I had a friend in No Central PA who used to make the thinnest non shielded silver ICs (called them Audio Blashemy or something like that) and for $40/m they sounded amazing!  At onetime, I had 5-6 pair of his ICs on all my components but slowly gave them all away to friends and others so they could try them… I still am using silver ICs on my gear, just from other companies…

Just my $.02,

thanks,

Lou

lou_setriodes's avatar
lou_setriodes
687 posts
 

Charley Horse - I like what you’ve accumulated in terms of audio gear. It’s all of a certain vintage and all very good sounding, without that next level price tag and performance. All good bang for the buck gear, which is where I usually have always been with my many audio systems over the years.

I’ve owned and read countless reviews of audio gear from Stereophile, TAS, HiFi News & RR, HiFi Heretic, The Listener, etc over the year, so much more than I’ll ever be able to listen to.

 

Regarding tube preamps, I had a Music Reference RM5 mkII for many years that I just loved (with a B&K ST140, EX442, Paoli M70 monos, and a Music Reference RM9) but for some odd reason, it wouldn’t mate up well with the c/m MV50 I had. What was mind blowing was that when I sent it in for a simple mute circuit repair, I had a $89 (at the time) lowly Dyna PAS2 inserted in my system for a few months. It was earth shattering how good this sounded, so much so, that when my MR pre came back, I preferred the PAS2.

 

When I had the cj MV50, I really wished I could have found a PV5 to mate it with. I don’t have any experience with cj preamps, but from what I’ve read, if you can find a cj Premier 2 or Premier 3 preamp, they are steps above the PV5.


Other great tube preamps that I read about that are a cut above are:

 

Berning TF10A or AH, Audio Research SP-6B, Counterpoint SA5 or 5.1, AVA Super PAS, Moscode Minuet in A, and MFA Majus….but if you are not using a silver IC between amp & pre, I would start there before changing preamps.


Have fun on the preamp journey,

Lou

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