@helomech you make fair points, but my point is slightly nuanced and different. Sure, a ls3/5 is a wonderful speaker, I’ve purchased it myself. Now, I’ve never denied that the sound quality can be great, what my issue is the price and value proposition is nothing more than a cash grab. All of the parts you’ve mentioned are not expensive, nor are they difficult to manufacture. Whether you think Harbeth has a better sounding tweeter or bass is highly subjective, not subject to proof, and overlooks the importance of system pairing. I have made the Olympicas sound far better than any ls3/5 by virtue of the right amplification, DAC, and source , and you should know in some environments there will be an inherent advantage of using a floor stander vs a book shelf. Could the opposite be true in certain environments, of course but not likely , that’s why your missing the point. Its about value, R&D, innovation, and cost. The total cost of parts for those Harbeth designs is a very small margin, and the labor cost is minimal, with the actual speakers demonstrating poor Qc as documented by glue being left on speaker cones. Whatever you say about speakers like Sonus Faber or BW 804 line, those are pieces of art. Whether we like it or not, speakers are furniture, and if we’re paying 10k plus, we should ask the manufacturer to spend some money and time to make them look better than an antiquated shoe box while they gouge all the profits for their personal expenses.
Borresen X3 vs Harbeth 40.2 -- my impressions
After reading so many glowing reviews of the Borresen X3 speaker, I decided to go and audition them at a local dealer who was gracious enough to let me stay there for over 4 hours. I went there with the intention of buying the X3 if they appealed to me. I thought I’d share my impressions here for those who are interested, especially in comparison to my Harbeth 40.2 speakers that I adore.
The dealer at first hooked them up to the Axxess Forte 1 integrated amp. To be brutally honest, I was about ready to bolt in the first 10 minutes. I just don’t understand why Axxess is getting so much praise. It was the most flat, dry, and boring sound I’ve heard. Luckily, the dealer had some very high end Burmester amp, preamp, and music server (close to $100K retail for the three pieces), which he agreed to use instead. Huuuuuge difference! The Burmester really made those Borresens come alive and sing. IMO, AGD is really doing a disservice to the X line by pairing them with the Axxess in audio shows. They are capable of scaling with much better gear. Shame!
If a massive, immersive, and holographic soundstage is your primary criteria and your budget is $11k max, you should stop reading at this point. Run and get these speakers before AGD decides to raise the price. I have yet to hear a speaker in this price range with this kind of soundstage. But if you value other aspects of music reproduction, keep on reading ...
Soundstage Width, Depth, and Height:
No contest. Borresen is noticeably better. The soundstage is as tall as it is deep. I heard sounds coming from besides me and behind me. Depth, while not outstanding, is there for sure. Just not as impressive as the height and width relatively speaking. I still can’t get that immersive feeling out of my head.
Ability to disappear:
This is one area where Harbeth always struggles. Owing to the thin walls of its cabinets, one is always aware of the big box the sound emanates from. The X3s totally disappeared. Again, very impressive for a speaker in this price range.
Vocals:
Sorry, but the X3 is simply not in the same league as the 40.2 when it comes to vocals. There’s this little extra, lifelike quality to vocals in most Harbeth speakers that is hard to beat. I listened to some very familiar songs on the X3, and it became clear why I fell in love with the Harbeth sound many years ago. Female voices are more ethereal and nuanced, male voices have more chestiness. You hear the emotions and every little inflection in the singers’ voice. It simply gives more of the ‘singer in the room’ feeling.
Instrument Separation:
This is a tough one. Both are excellent in this regard. But I will give a very slight edge to 40.2s here. Or maybe not. I don’t know. Let’s call it evens.
Transparency and Realism:
This is where Harbeth pulled ahead of the X3s in a major way. I’m not saying that the X3s are deficient by any means, but the 40.2s just give you a lot more of it. You really have to live with them for a while to truly understand and appreciate what this speaker brings to the table. It’s truly addictive. The only other speakers I’ve heard that are better in this regard are the Quads or other electrostatics.
Midrange and Lushness:
My impression of Borresen speakers prior to this was that they were very fast, neutral, and quiet. But, much to my surprise, the X3s (or perhaps the X line itself) has been voiced to be more on the warm side of things. Sound was warm and had body. Unfortunately, this is being achieved by adding a bit of a mid bass bump. While it gives the speaker an overall warm predisposition, I felt it came at the expense of hiding details in the mid bass region. Harbeth is also known for a lush midrange but it doesn’t get here by sacrificing detail or exaggerating the sound. Another side effect of this characteristic was that acoustic instruments felt bigger than life. Guitars felt like they were 10 foot long. Piano strokes lacked the bite and immediacy that I get with 40.2s – and by the way this is not a particularly strong point of Harbeth either.
Tone and Timbre:
Harbeth to the front of the line, please. The timbre and tonal accuracy of the 40.2s is on another level. X3s are also very good in this regard but are somewhat outclassed by Harbeth.
Overall Refinement:
I apologize in advance if this is going ruffle some feathers, but the 40.2s are overall much more refined sounding than the Borresen X series. Again, this is only in comparison. On its own, I would never label the X3s as unrefined. The Harbeth just has this extra layer of refinement that you come to appreciate the more time you spend with it.
Bass:
As they say, there’s no replacement for displacement. The 4.5” drivers on X3 produce a prodigious amount of bass which is hard to believe considering the size of the drivers. Yet, the 12” woofer on 40.2s gives you more of that deep and tuneful bass. It just sounds more satisfying and fuller.
Look and Feel:
This is very subjective, of course, so please feel free to take it with a grain of salt. But I was not impressed by how the X3s looked in person, they lacked elegance. It kind of reminded me of Tekton – okay, maybe that’s too harsh, I take it back. But I was a little disappointed as they looked really nice in pictures. Wish they would lose the carbon fiber touch and the checkered driver patterns. The Harbeths, on the other hand, don’t look as impressive and nice in pictures. I mean what do you expect from an oversized shoebox on stands. But, the quality and craftsmanship of hand-built cabinets has a more timeless and elegant feel to it that has to be seen and felt to be appreciated. I just feel this style, boring as it is, just ages more gracefully.
Long story short, I have decided to stay with my 40.2s. They have many quirks, as pointed out by several members on this forum. But what they do, they do it exceedingly well. I found the Harbeth 40.x to be overall more transparent, lifelike, refined, and balanced. They don’t do dynamics as good as other speakers or disappear as much as other speakers in this price range, but they more than make up for it in other ways. I’ve heard people claim that the X3 are twice (or even thrice!) as good as their asking price. If soundstage is your primary criteria for judging speakers, then I wholeheartedly agree. But if you value transparency, vocals, timbre, tonal accuracy, and overall refinement ... the Harbeth 40.x series justifies its higher price, despite the shortcomings.
Having said that, I was still very impressed by Borresen X3 and won’t mind having it as a second pair once they hit the used market. But I feel the hype doesn’t quite align with what I actually heard during the audition. In this price range, I find Audio Vector to be a better value.
Please note that these are my opinions based on a ‘mere’ 4-hour demo, and only in comparison to my favorite speakers. It’s totally fine if someone draws a completely opposite conclusion, or tells me that I’m biased. My taste, my preferences, IMO, IHMO, etc. etc. etc.
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@donvito while I may sound like I’m railing against those brands, all I really want is lower prices, actual customer service, and better QC if they’re going to use that business model. It’s basic economics. If "it’s not broken, then don’t fix it" is the model, where’s all the cost savings to the customers? Why are these speakers costing the same as European counterparts that are using world class level wood working and craftsmanship? Harbeth and their ilk are screwing some boxes together using parts that are widely available and cheap on the wholesale market, at least pass on the savings to us . To me, it’s nothing more than a cartel and artifical price manipulation. I will be loyal to the consumer every time. We should be balking at such asking prices and demanding lower prices rather than playing submissive cult follower with an open wallet who never dares speak out. |
Audiophiles have become the equivalent of a car owner smiling while the mechanic charges him thousands for replacing an electronic module that doesn’t exist . The question is, why ? Have they become so eager to be accepted and part of an imagined club that they dont dare question the party line anymore ? It’s just like how nearly every review is positive, and if a YouTuber dares to give a negative review they get threatened with a lawsuit by DCS. Come on, it’s a hobby, let us be free at least with our hobbies. |
To me your second paragraph is good evidence in support of your first sentence. That’s because I suspect you’d be very surprised by how the Borresens compare to the Spendors or your previous SHL5s if you were to commit the same amount of time and effort in maximizing their performance in your own room. |
I think a lot of you have really misunderstood bbc speakers. Derek Hughes has said on numerous occasions that it is all about the crossover, that is where you design the sound of the speakers, off course the cabinets are important but that was taken care of 50 years ago, today you have better drivers and better components to use in the crossover implementation, so he has been able to improve the old bbc design, I am lucky enough to have the Graham Audio LS 5/9 speakers, in my room they are so good and real sounding, I like them better than the Harbeth 30.1 that I have heard in a demo. I have not heard the bigger bbc designs, hopefully one day. I have heard many more modern designs, although only in stores, and must say I don’t feel I miss anything from my speakers, some speakers are more revealing and some have more bass, but both of those things can be a bad thing if you room can not facilitate that or I have a problem listening to very revealing speakers as I feel that they often dissect the music and I loose the natural flow and rhythm that I like, but the best I like with my speakers is the tone of instruments and the naturalness of voices, I think some people have not heard these speakers and just comment on the looks and the perceived value of parts and form their opinions on that and that is a shame, the 5/9 and others of their ilk are very revealing speakers in their own right, they just don’t over do it. |
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