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some other dude - with whom i do have a history - piles on with ad hominem attacks on me, presumably for making logic-based points?
 

@mdalton To be clear, you made a snide response to someone here who merely shared his actual listening experience with a streamer, and you took it upon yourself to try to tell him he didn’t know what he was talking about when he heard what he heard with his own ears.  Incidentally, I’ve received emails from other posters here supporting my response and saying that you were off base with your unnecessary comments.

I believe I deserve special credit for linking to a thread where an OP, against my recommendation, spent a ton of money on a streamer, and seems very happy with his decision, which is fine by me

Special credit for giving bad advice that streamers don’t make a difference???  Ha!  And that OP, BTW, is not just very happy but is thrilled with his new Aurender streamer to the point where his streaming setup is now on the level of his vinyl source no thanks to your “advice.”  Not that you’d understand that since according to you streamers don’t make a difference.  Give it a rest dude — you do more harm than good here. 

@audphile1 

so you just compared me to a pig?  ok,whatever.  But see, unlike you, I’m not trying “to prove that you’re wrong”.  Like you (and you know who), I think I’m right, but I’m always willing to acknowledge the possibility that I’m not. So I’m ok with you (and you know who) expressing your views, but you guys have a problem letting me express mine.  Look back at our history and you’ll see that virtually every time it’s simply me defending myself from gratuitous attacks from you (and you know who).  

mulchy

11 posts

08-05-2024 at 08:35pm 

Presumably not with a chorus of beautiful hog harmony.
 

No. It’s still just oinking…

@soix 

I know this is tough for you but let’s try to get back to substance.  You argue that my advice, consistently supported by my own listening experience, science and data, is bad, useless and pointless.  Honestly though, my views are in the mainstream.  Let me give you two prominent examples:

1) Mark Craven, HiFi News (7/8/24 review of PS Audio Airlens):  “Ideally a network streamer/bridge will have no ‘sound’ of its own and will simply pass the digital audio data in as clean a state as possible, letting the connected DAC get to work. Any subjective audition of the AirLens is therefore a ‘group effort’ with the partnering DAC…”  This is a consistent theme of their reviews of streamers; they don’t have a sound, they simply move data.  Differences are a function of noise, and noise differences for well-engineered products are de minimus.  This is supported by a rigorous set of measuring criteria performed by Paul Miller over the last 20 years or more.

2) Steven Stone, The Absolute Sound (12/29/21 review of iFi Zen):  “This might be the ideal time to pose the question, “Do streamers have a sound?” They are basically file movers. They move digital data, which in this case happens to be music, from point A to point B. Music files enter via Ethernet or Wi-Fi and are sent to a DAC. Ideally nothing should alter their contents or error-rate. Whether there are functions or factors within the network signal chain that can or do alter the final results appears to be a subject that inspires passionate and polarized debate. My position is pragmatic. A simple, well-designed, robust streaming-signal chain should not have an audible effect on the sound of a music file.” This guy writes for The Absolute Sound!!! They don’t do measurements, it’s all subjective, but even he sees the illogic of thinking that streamers have a sound.

So in summary, you can disagree with these guys, though they have far more experience than either of us.  And you can find all sorts of other reviewers who will make a different argument.  But I don’t think you can (logically) argue that this view is impossible or stupid, or that those promoting it are deaf, useless or pointless.  That is all I’ve been arguing during our “streamer wars”.  So could you just chill?

A simple, well-designed, robust streaming-signal chain should not have an audible effect on the sound of a music file
 

@mdalton 

The reviewer rattling out such statements as you had posted above is nothing but a description of what the streamers should be like in an ideal world. It’s nothing but an opinion. Read that sentence again.

The earlier pig reference must have set the stage for this LOL…

”all animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others”. 
George Orwell, Animal Farm

This applies to everything including streamers.