Step Up Transformers….Are they Worth the Trouble?

Dear @herman : I know you by Agon since 15-20 years and I know that even you teach for some years circuit theory.

Again: I’m not chasing numbers. I posted " thousands " of times that my main syatem target is to stay nearer to the recording and to reach that target you need accuracy at each single chain system link and at the end you need " numbers " to look how accurate is " this or that " and not only in the RIAA but in THD or IMD:WE NEED NUMBERS, and like you posted: everything the same lower numbers are better.

I know very well your high knowledge levels but in audio phonolinepreamp designs you need skills too and more important is CREATIVITY because with out this you can’t reach that main target.

Now, been a circuit theory teacher along working in electronics I think that you understand that for the truly sensible output levels of the cartridge signal a short circuit path road for that signal outperforms a longer one: rigth?. Maybe not because in your system you choosed the long path for the cartridge signal. This behavior makes no sense to me knowing your technical background. @lalitk this for me is not " disrespect " not with herman or with any other Agon member never. @mulveling things are that normally I really have serious problems to explain me in english ( " become a demonstration of how NOT to effectively communicate. ) that’s not my native language along that I always try to be direct and always trying to help and not to destroy: I don’t say " look as white " if it’s white and then I say is white. Yes, several times Agoners think that I’m truly agressive because when something seems to me ( first hand experiences. ) is wrong I post is wrong no matter what but I don’t said in that way trying to diminish the other person in any way and I’m sorry for that.

Now and returning to that creativity what my technical friend ( designer ) and partner in the phonolinepreamp manufacturedid it was to " invent/creative " a propietary technique using ( between other things. ) the digital domain audio signal to calibrate in real time each one phonolinepreamp RIAA that allows an overall phono re-equalization accuracy to within +/-0.01 dB, guaranteeing that the musical information decoded by the preamplifier is completely neutral to the input source.

That means accuracy to reach my main system targe. Well this care wit that unit is the care we took in the selection parts that we did it hand tested each part, we don’t let nothing at random everything was measured. Along those chasing " numbers " we made really hundreds of listen tests in several room/system and always testing with the same LP tracks.

At the end what I did it and do in my room/system is not chasing numbers but chasing accuracy and proudly I can say that I achieved and the system has a very high resolution . Next is the link of my virtrual Agon system, yes to long to read it but for me is interesting and explain why it looks here as if I’m chasing " numbers " and why I use transistors instead tubes and why I don’t use any more SUT’s:

On the Quest of Audio Heaven. | Virtual Listening Room (audiogon.com)

Btw, @lalitk it’s a must that the phono stage you choose comes with the RIAA 3.18us pole that’s where the cutting machine stops ( around 50khz-60khz ) to avoid the cutting head burn-in. Not all the phono stages comes with and not all the ones that have it have it with out phase developed " problems ". Nearer to the recording means that the 3.18us most be " there " in your phono stage. Btw, the real issue with my posts in this thread is that what I said goes against what you want it and I don’t posted trying to " hit " you in any way but trying to help trying that you avoid the other gentlemans mistakes/errors because they are wrong ( with all respect ): black is black, no other word .

R.

@lewm I know all about discards due to testing matching, I supplied a substantial amount of monies for the Parts used on the Two Valve Phon's Prototypes of which I have one which incurred further costs by having the End Design voiced to my own preference.

I do believe the individual you have quoted does produce a RIAA that falls into the tight tolerances quoted, by being in a room with the builder, I vaguely remember their description making a reference to the RIAA and on other posts on forums they certainly make reference to it.

On the day a Two Box Paradise 0.02 dB RIAA? and a Four Box 0.3 dB RIAA?  

The RIAA dB's quoted are very likely to have been these, unless the Four Box Builder selects a tighter tolerance for their own Phon's RIAA, than the one they reference as being the purchasers selection, 

On the day, as made known in earlier Posts about the Paradise, the Four Box Model in my view, was the Phon' worthy to be Standalone A/B Compared to the resident £10K Phon' and separating them for which was the better was no easy task.    

As said, this in my view, places the Paradise in a position where for the monies to be laid out to achieve one, gets an individual a Phon' will comfortably hold its own with Phon's from the Branded World that retail at £10K and upwards.

What's not too like if one is a Vendor, Probably a Fly in the Ointment if one is a Retailer.   

“I do know the enjoyment to be had entertaining oneself trying out the extent of Permutations that can be created for the Vinyl Signal Path. ”
@pindac 

That’s been my goal all along! Thanks again for your input :-)

“I do know the enjoyment to be had entertaining oneself trying out the extent of Permutations that can be created for the Vinyl Signal Path. ”
@pindac 

That’s been my goal all along! Thanks again for your input :-)

Agreed - same here, and well said on that point @pindac .

@rauliruegas I respect your bilingual skills, especially as I have none to speak of. I certainly wasn't knocking that, nor singling you out - it was meant as a general comment as to how these threads always go in this analog forum:

1. Op has a specific inquiry or technical question.
2. The usual crew trots out briefcases full of their own specific, narrow perspectives, retrofits them onto the op's inquiry (often very poorly) and dumps them on op's thread.
3. There is the usual bickering between participants, as the thread descends into a wall after wall of text largely incomprehensible to anyone but those participants. 

So to admit my own guilt in this game, my schtick is that subjective listening experience and perception is key. I realize that some find this perspective worthless.

@lalitk I am a Curioso in character, but do need to have a Tangible Experience when attempting to attain a knowledge.

I see your activities to be undertaken as a very similar trait and I feel very confident in my saying much of what has been thrown at you to steer you away from your intention is a waste to you, not worthwhile to you.

As for Shortest / Purest Signal Path.

Take electronics produced at a time say around 2010, say a Phonostage produced from that era. Has it got Pure Copper or Coated Brass for the Chassis Cable Connections? How much lead is in the Solder? How much Silver is in the Solder? Which metal is the lead out wire on a component.

The list is just a few considerations, a well thought out Signal Path being very careful with math and metal types selected to be used at a interface will offer something quite special as an end sound.

My own investigations have left me to feel very confident, when a careful metal material selection is made for interfaces. This is capable of outshining another Phon' that only has a Math as its selling point, and is creating a inferior Signal Path resulting from inferior Interface Metals selected. 

Inferior metals are commonly selected when a design is to offer the most attractive margins as a return remuneration.  

I have been privy to work carried out on a Tonearm Signal Path and Bespoke Design SS State Phon' and my own Bespoke Built Valve Phon'. My fundamental influences proposed was when the Amp's were near Voiced and presenting with attraction, was to work on the Signal Path focusing on materials used for Interfaces. Great indelible memories are made, and the approach taken has become the method I thoroughly recommend to be experienced.

I have referenced some of the methods used within the forum. 

As to SUT's referred to in the Link I supplied.

Two Individuals who have seemingly owned over time approx' $180Kish Phon's of which certain models approach $30K+ Retail are both dedicated to using SUT's of various Types married up to these Phon' Models.

I have no reason not to believe both of these individuals know a thing or two about how to have a high quality end sound produced when using a Vinyl Source.