DACs and reproduced sound


I am trying to understand how to think of DACs effecting reproduced music (I am new to the hobby). I think of a DACs "role" as taking a digital input (1s and 0s) and a cleanly as possible processing that digital signal to an analogue output - goal is not impart anything on the processed data. The difference between a good and bad DAC seems like it should be on how well it does that. Or, said another way, from a review of a Benchmark DAC:

"The old regulars know exactly my position regarding the stupidity of ascribing a “character” to the sound of an utterly neutral signal path. Oohing and aahing over the vast improvement in soundstaging, front-to-back depth, bass delineation, or treble sweetness obtainable with this or that electronic component may sell high-end magazines but is totally unscientific and delusional. What the Benchmark DAC1 HDR adds to or subtracts from its input signal is borderline unmeasurable, so the sonic character of its output is obviously the sonic character of its input. It’s as simple as that. It has no sound of its own."

I sort of think of amplifiers and speakers (I am digital only listener)as being more important in "imparting" a particular musical flavor (warm, bright, etc.).

I am a bit new to the hobby so I would like any insights or be educated on DACs some more.
Ag insider logo xs@2xdangelod
Dear Dgarretson,
I wasn't claiming that a "perfect DAC" would be too revealing of the underlying flaws of the CD Format. Every Recording, Analog-Digital Conversion, and Playback peice of Equipment damages the original to varying degrees. They all still damage the original never the less. There are going to be some that greatly damage the original signal magnitudes greater than others. There are huge Sound differences between DACs; however, there is even a greater disparity in Sound Quality from one CD to another, that is clearly discernable even with the worse DAC. The only explanation for this huge disparity, is that the Analog/Digital Conversion does most of the damage to the Harmonic Content of the Recording. Magnifying this damage by increasing the accuracy of the DAC ten fold, might ameliorate some of the damage that the DAC causes, but won't even put a dent in the damage that the original Analog/Digital Conversion has caused. Such Damage is so severe, that the only solution might be to err in the opposite direction in the Analog Output Stage. Certainly, this means modifying the original, and not being ever more faithful to the accuracy of the severly damaged original signal. Being ever more faithful to the original signal, could even end up distorting the Music even more severe, by compounding the damage that was done during the Analog/Digital Recording Process. It may sound counter intuitive, but I believe that there is more going on in our Analog Output Stages, than just being faithful to the original signal.
Pettyofficer - Many analog tapes were digitized with jittery clocks and less than perfect A/D converters (long time ago). Recorded jitter cannot be suppressed and the only remedy is to digitize it again with better equipment (if analog tapes still exist). Recorded jitter is pretty much the same as hiss on analog tapes (jitter=noise in time domain). I only hope we're going in right direction.
Pettyofficer, in the long course of modifying my CDP I found that every RBCD sounded better than before-- including some '80s masters that I had written off completely. Various magazine reviewers have made similar observations regarding the better players. I can't recall a reviewer ever stating that a top player made a CD sound worse than before. Admittedly there are wide variations in the quality of A/D and D/A. However, good luck finding one CDP that can "euphonize" the defects of a poorly mastered CD, while sounding resolving with a well-mastered one. A player should be both highly resolving and musical.

When the discussion turns to the theoretical "damage" done in A/D and D/A conversions, I fall back on my empirical results modding the SCD-1. There have been some big leaps forward with this machine to the point that RBCD rivals vinyl. And yet of all the changes, the one that matters the least is toggling between the five digital filter options. So to the degree at least that the stock player allows variability in the way digital is handled, it is much ado about nothing.

" I can't recall a Reviewer ever stating that a top player made a CD sound worse than before ", does this mean that they are all perfect, or does it mean that only the perfect players were the ones that were reviewed. Your point of a 110% perfection, is suspect in itself.
I have also heard a huge improvement in each new generation of Digital playback equipment. The problem is that your best CDs sound better, while your terrible sounding CDs got even worse. This is all of the proof that I need that all of the huge advances in playback Digital/Analog Conversion still cannot turn a sows ear into a silk purse. There is inherit distortions in the Digital Recording that the best DAC in the World cannot ameliorate. The common perception, is that Jitter is the culprit that effectively vacuums up all of the Harmonic content in the Digital Recording. Henseforth, vanishing low amounts of jitter appear to be the selling point of top DACs. Harmonics are simply multiples of the cycle of the original Musical Event, usually at a lower level. If jitter isn't within the threshold of human hearing to distort the original Musical Event, why would it completely vacuum up the Harmonic Content at lower levels? The explaination is that Harmonic Content is more complex than the digital system that is trying to reproduce it. So, with all of the advances in Digital Recording and D/A Conversion playback, with vanishing low Jitter, do Digital Recordings still suffer from a vacuum of Harmonic Content? It doesn't seem to matter what digital equipment is used in the Recording or playback, Digital still suffers from a lack of Harmonic Content when compared to the best in Analog. You won't find a Digital System that sounds as good, with Harmonics, as a comparative Analog System. You might get a little closer, and a little closer, but you will never eventually get there. I fall back on the Empirical results of 30 years of development in Digital Recording, and Playback, with vanishing low Jitter, and Higher Sampling Rates, and still we haven't reached the level of Harmonic Content that a 60 year old system could easily reproduce. Perhaps Jitter is not the only problem?